Because superman returns sucks:ROFL:Originally Posted by user friendly
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This is a discussion on Sony Invites Toshiba & Microsoft to Join BDA within the Electronic Devices forums, part of the Gadgets & Electronics Forums category; Originally Posted by user friendly That's going nowhere. Because superman returns sucks:ROFL:...
Because superman returns sucks:ROFL:Originally Posted by user friendly
Any kind of proof to back that up or since its not sony it has to fail...Originally Posted by user friendly
I haven't downloaded any since I can just spend $30 and buy any blu ray movie and play it but not all people have that luxury.Yeah, most know that already, enjoy days of waiting until it's done, that's if it has any seeders (How many have you downloaded?) and remember they are compressed, most files are actually 20-30 gigs sometimes more. Then you have the space being taken on you hardrive. Optical movie storage will still be the main way to enjoy your movies for many more years. Pirating is not the answer and this topic is about the average consumer.
Doubtful since dvd added so much more over VHS and it took so time to get popular whereas blu ray only adds better quality/sound for a alot more money. Also HD isn't even big yet and the amount of people with HD tvs is pretty small then add the fact that 1080p isn't big yet either. I don't see how Blu ray will get so popular so fast and you have yet to provide any kind of facts or anything to back up your opinions.Middle to late next year is more than a couple of months, think September or December 08 (16 months if you're not sure) and plenty of time for the consumer to make up their mind. I'm thinking' 13 months max, could be more but I'm guessing it will be over by then.
How much? I doubt its over 30gb.I have way more DVD's than VHS so do probably many other people. I don't really know what you mean by wasting space, do you know how much space it takes for the uncompressed audio?
They're not $50 though, some are $40 but most are only $5 - $10 more than their DVD counterpart, obviously they will become cheaper.Originally Posted by IGNYup Sony does.Pirates is one 50GB BD and one 25 GB BD, they obviously couldn't fit all the extras on one 50GB BD and still keep the high bitrates. You think they would waste money like that? Disney wanted to max out the bitrates which required at least a 50GB disc.
IMO blu ray will be just like how HDtvs are. HDtvs are better than standard tvs ya but people wont just go out and buy one for the better quality. As the price goes down more people will buy them but it will take time for HDtvs to be the standard in everyone's home. Who isn't satisfied with dvd?
I bet if I did a survey down my local high-street and asked people what they know of Blu-Ray, most of them would be like "... wtf is blue ray?"
Blu-Ray isn't advertised enough, the only time I've seen it advertised was a movie trailer where at the end it mentions "...also on Blu-Ray" and that's it, make more ads about Blu-Ray and maybe, just maybe, people will familiarise themselves with it and buy it more!
Only Warner is doing it, and it's been delayed with no "real" release date. Also, have you seen any other titles that are coming out in THD, it's pointless to sandwich both formats on one disc especially when only one will prevail.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
You think I'm so loyal to Sony, yet you overlook my purchases. If I loved Sony so much, I would've bought their XBR3 or XBR4 as my HDTV.
And you think they can afford a connection that will download a 20GB file at a reasonable pace? HD isn't for everyone...... yet.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
DVD's at first were more than VHS, the prices from VHS to DVD and DVD to BD aren't all that different. Same with the players, at first DVD players were pricey. It takes time to take off but I see it taking off at least by late next year. I'm not saying DVD will be gone by then, I'm saying Blu ray will have beaten out HDDVD by then, pay attention now.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
No, but with uncompressed audio and video or at the High bitrates that Disney used for Pirates, it's much more than you think. It wouldn't fit on one 50GB, with all the extras so they put the extras on a 2nd disc.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
Clearly they don't, they're not in the state where they can throw it around so don't just say, "yup, sony does" Not how business is ran. Don't confuse the BDA with Sony either, Sony makes up only a chunk of the BDA.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
Guess you're not aware of how they are selling then. Sales keep increasing, never have they gone down or laid flat. People ARE buying them, it's pretty much all you find at BB and Future Shop nowadays. Even at Walmart. Now that gaming is mostly in HD, sales will continue to grow and probably by 2010, they will have a huge install base.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
I doubt HD-DVD will die out soon, yes blu ray sales are higher and future announcements makes it more promising and all, but i still think its too early.
Like laserdisc I can see consumers skipping this generation of discs and embracing what ever is next. DVD still looks great and the difference between a good upscaled DVD and Blu-ray/hd-dvd isn't huge and certainly not enough for cosumers to spend massive amount of money on screen/speakers/player.Originally Posted by user friendly
I'm not but the last HD film I saw was Letters from Iwo Jima and was about 6gb. I'd be amazed if you could tell whether it was Blu-ray or x.264. Once you drop the res to 720p and bring the audio to 5.1 they are a much more reasonable size.Originally Posted by user friendly
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Quality difference from VHS>DVD is much bigger than DVD>HD and was noticeable on any screen.Originally Posted by user friendly
You'd struggle to go into a TV shop and get out with a SD CRT, of course they are selling by the bucket load. Doesn't mean people are making the jump to HD.Originally Posted by user friendly
Last edited by Ciaran_; 09-07-2007 at 01:08 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I like many others here have, it'll just a little longer for the general consumer does.
HDTV sales continue to grow at a good pace, can't argue that.
cause they are going down in price.....Originally Posted by user friendly
I hate mine though cause time warner only has crappy channels in HD...
I'm waiting until next year to buy an HDTV - I've heard rumours that they're crap now compared to how they'll be then.
Then again, they're just rumours. I'm actually just waiting until my friend feels like getting of his arse and stealing me one.
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I think in the end people will go for whats the most cheapest and most affordable but thats just my opinion.
I own a Playstation 3,PSP and a Wii add me on psn: azazin,
Originally Posted by TheMasterChef
It will be released in early 2008. Pointless? Lets say you have a blu ray player at home(your PS3) and a laptop with a HD DVD drive. Having one disc that can be played on both HD dvd and Blu Ray players would be sweet and make those $1000+ HD players that can playback both blu ray and HD DVD drives useless.Originally Posted by user friendly
I would say fanboy rather than loyalty. Its not about what you buy its more about how you think about a certain idea or company.You think I'm so loyal to Sony, yet you overlook my purchases. If I loved Sony so much, I would've bought their XBR3 or XBR4 as my HDTV.
If the shoe fits...Originally Posted by Wikipedia
All I'm saying is there no way to tell if HD DVD will just lose in a year to blu ray. You give no facts to back up your statements =/ With the release of the portable HD DVD players next year, the recent announcement of Paramount going exclusive with HD DVD, and the fact that the HD DVD add on for the 360 is still the cheapest HD dvd drive out for a pc I doubt we will see a end to this format war anytime soon.And you think they can afford a connection that will download a 20GB file at a reasonable pace? HD isn't for everyone...... yet.
DVD's at first were more than VHS, the prices from VHS to DVD and DVD to BD aren't all that different. Same with the players, at first DVD players were pricey. It takes time to take off but I see it taking off at least by late next year. I'm not saying DVD will be gone by then, I'm saying Blu ray will have beaten out HDDVD by then, pay attention now.
No, but with uncompressed audio and video or at the High bitrates that Disney used for Pirates, it's much more than you think. It wouldn't fit on one 50GB, with all the extras so they put the extras on a 2nd disc.
Clearly they don't, they're not in the state where they can throw it around so don't just say, "yup, sony does" Not how business is ran. Don't confuse the BDA with Sony either, Sony makes up only a chunk of the BDA.
Guess you're not aware of how they are selling then. Sales keep increasing, never have they gone down or laid flat. People ARE buying them, it's pretty much all you find at BB and Future Shop nowadays. Even at Walmart. Now that gaming is mostly in HD, sales will continue to grow and probably by 2010, they will have a huge install base.
Pointless, yes. Compression to the max. If it's such a great idea, how come only Warner is doing it? The 08 release isn't even close to official, it's their expected release date, meaning they aren't guaranteeing it.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
Fanboy of what, the BDA? Again, you're confusing the BDA with Sony. Like I said and your quote said, if I was such a fanboy of Sony I would have "disregarded any factors that differ from my point of view" but instead I bought a Sharp TV, a Samsung DVD player and a Technics CD player. So you're claim that I am a fanboy is way out there and I don't appreiciate the accusations. It seems to be your only defence when in a debate with someone. You're only a child, I understand.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
Blu ray out sells HDDVD every week, including this past week where Blades of Glory was supposed to have helped out. I don't need to keep spouting facts, when everyone knows whats going on, but:Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
Would you like some more proof or facts? 300 was supposed to be the movie that brought HDDVD back to life, but instead sold more than double on BD. I'm just going by what the consumer is choosing, not fanboyism, so try some other insults if you must continue to argue with me.BD:HDDVD
56:44 for week ending Sept. 2, 2007
66:34 for year of 2007
61:39 since inception
That;s so stupid I don't even know what to say. HD on a small ass screen :ROFL: Now you're just trying to digg for something good for HDDVD.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
For only 18 months.... Their HDM sales aren't doing to great since the move and I expect them to further plummet.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
How many people do you see doing that, definitely not the general consumer, who matter most and will have the biggest affect on this format war.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
My point is, nothing the HDDVD camp is doing is really helping their cause. As soon as they loose Universal/Paramount excslusivity, their done. The BDA is made up of more companies and more studios support BD, common sense to think that BD will win outright.
Last edited by user friendly; 09-08-2007 at 09:03 AM.
Who knows? Maybe other companies want to see how it gets received before backing it. With HD DVD and Blu ray already companies wont just back up this new HD hybrid disc from the start.Originally Posted by user friendly
Being utterly devoted to a idea or in this case a company(a fanboy if you will) isn't entirely bad nor should it be seen as a insult. Tho being utterly devoted to a company often to the point of obsession usually(but not always) clouds your judgment and like wikiepdia said "disregarding any factors (often including logic) that differ from their point of view." Also fanboy's tend to buy stuff from the companies they are devoted too but not always so ya you can be utterly devoted to Sony and buy A Sharp tv or samsung dvd player.Fanboy of what, the BDA? Again, you're confusing the BDA with Sony. Like I said and your quote said, if I was such a fanboy of Sony I would have "disregarded any factors that differ from my point of view" but instead I bought a Sharp TV, a Samsung DVD player and a Technics CD player. So you're claim that I am a fanboy is way out there and I don't appreciate the accusations. It seems to be your only defense when in a debate with someone.
Feel better about yourself now?You're only a child, I understand.
Since when was 300 suppose to bring HD DVD back to life? Were people suppose to spend $300 on a HD DVD player just to watch one movie? I was waiting for you to bring the sales agreement and ya Blu ray is selling alot more obviously. But why is it seling so much more? Because its a better format? Not really the specs are pretty similar and HD DVD disc can go up to 150gb on the ten layered disc they made so size isn't really a issue either. Do people prefer Blu ray over HD DVD? Not really they got a player with there PS3 so they might as well buy some movies for it. HD isn't the standard yet and many people don't have HDtvs(especially not 1080p ones) so no one expects many people to go into Best Buy and buy a stand alone Blu ray or HD DVD player.Blu ray out sells HDDVD every week, including this past week where Blades of Glory was supposed to have helped out. I don't need to keep spouting facts, when everyone knows whats going on, but:
Would you like some more proof or facts? 300 was supposed to be the movie that brought HDDVD back to life, but instead sold more than double on BD. I'm just going by what the consumer is choosing, not fanboyism, so try some other insults if you must continue to argue with me.
This poses a problem for Toshiba since there are only 3 ways to get a HD DVD drive buy some of the new Toshiba laptops with them(very expensive), buy a stand alone player(HDtvs aren't the standard yet and based on the people I know none of them now about blu ray or HD DVD to be interested in getting one), and getting the HD DVD drive add on for your 360. I would assume the latter is how most HD DVD drives are being sold since its more likely that a 360 owner would have more knowledge about HD than someone without one. When Toshiba finds a way to get the players in peoples home the sales will pick up. It doesn't matter what movie you release on HD DVD if people don't have the players it wont make much money.
Also blu ray movies/players weren't exactly selling like hot cakes before the PS3 was released.
Kinda like putting a blu ray drive in a video game console eh? But I agree that that isn't smart but that point was to show you Toshiba isn't going to let HD DVD just die anytime soon. And Sony plans to make portable blu ray players in 08 as well.That;s so stupid I don't even know what to say. HD on a small ass screen :ROFL: Now you're just trying to digg for something good for HDDVD.
That's because they haven't found a way to get the player's in people's home and without the players who would buy the movies? You seem to think HD DVD sales are bad because the format sucks or no one likes it but that isn't the case. There aren't many HD DVD owners thus the sales cant be great especially since every HD DVD player owner isn't going to buy every HD DVD movie.For only 18 months.... Their HDM sales aren't doing to great since the move and I expect them to further plummet.
I would argue most general consumers have no idea what blu ray or HD dvd is and if were forced to choose between the two, the general consumer(not knowing if there's even a difference between the two) would go with the cheaper more affordable HD DVD player. It only makes sense.How many people do you see doing that, definitely not the general consumer, who matter most and will have the biggest affect on this format war.
General Consumer:I'm looking to go HD for my living room. I see Blu ray players are $500 and HD DVD players are $300. Whats the difference?
Clerk: Well Blu Ray has higher bit rates. Raw data transfer 53.95 Mbit/s(Blu ray) 36.55 Mbit/s(HD DVD) Audio+Video 48.0 Mbit/s(Blu Ray) 30.24 Mbit/s(HD DVD) Video 40.0 Mbit/s(Blu Ray) 29.4 Mbit/s(HD DVD). As well as better quality sound Dolby Digital @ 640 Kbit/s(Blu Ray) @ 504 Kbit/s(HD DVD) DTS-HD High Resolution Optional @ 6.0 Mbit/s(Blu Ray) @ 3.0 Mbit/s(HD DVD) DTS-HD Master Audio @ 24.0 Mbit/s(Blu Ray) @ 18.0 Mbit/s(HD DVD).
General Consumer: Well I didn't understand a word you just said lol. I just got this new 1080p LCD so are HD DVD movies in 1080p?
General Consumer: Oh ok then I'll just take the HD DVD player.
I made this up but this is imo how the general consumer would act. They don't care about bitrates or more space. They both get the full hd quality yet one is alot more expensive than the other. Do you really think the general consumer would buy a Blu Ray player over a HD DVD player? There is big factor missing tho which would be personal taste in dvds since not all movies are in HD DVD or Blu ray which would also help the general consumer decide.
Blu ray might as well win but not for a couple of years. HD DVD isn't dying anytime soon. To tell you the truth I'd rather have Blu ray win since I already spent $300+ on blu ray movies.My point is, nothing the HDDVD camp is doing is really helping their cause. As soon as they loose Universal/Paramount exclusivity, their done. The BDA is made up of more companies and more studios support BD, common sense to think that BD will win outright.
Last edited by Sinfulfate; 09-08-2007 at 11:35 AM.
Now it is very obvious that you have no experience in this field whatsoever. You have many types of consumers, so you cannot categorize consumers into "general", however for the purposes of this i will set them into groups of technologically up to date and .....old.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
The technologically up to date customer will be after the best one. As long as he/she has enough money, they will ask for the most technologically advanced player, and look at what they can afford. If they cannot afford the one they want, knowing market trends, they will most likely wait for a price drop or until they have the money.
The 'old' AKA WTF IS HD-DVD consumer would ask somebody what is the best format. Now simply telling them that Blu-ray has faster data transfer rates and more storage (not giving the 10 layer bull**** - if they have the same number of layers blu-ray is superior) then they will probably side with blu ray. If they cannot afford a player, they will most likely wait until prices drop. After all they have had DVD quality images for ages anyway, and all this 1080p malarky doesn't bother them that much.
I know this because i work in electrical sales, and to be honest at the moment i tell people not to bother with blu-ray or HD-DVD as they are both a waste of money unless you are looking to buy a PS3. A simple upscaling 1080p DVD player for pennies will suffice for a year or two.
P.S - Sinulfate, you have wayy too much time on your hands quoting all those figures and replying to all those arguments.
It's still not going anywhere, I'll be very surprised if it does.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
Oh man, still with the fanboy statements. I don't know how you justify calling me that, when we are discussing a format war. I only prefer BD because I have a PS3 and will buy a standalone when the format is finally chosen. I say that I think BD will win outright and you call me a fanboy, grow up.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
Not much different from you calling me a fanboy. Except my statement is true, not that it's bad too be young, just throwing comments out there like you would.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
The HDDVD version had some exclsusive content that was supposed to help it outsell the BD version.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
Well I agree with you that more 360 owners would know about HD IIRC standalone HDDVD players are the top sellers. It's probably pretty close.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
It'll be too late by that time, BD will have already invaded too many homes. BDA has been very quiet as of late and for them to give the consumer a big reason to buy into BD would probably crush whats left of HDDVD.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
Precisely, every PS3 sold is likely to sell BD movies as well. Sony's move was very crafty but it's not like it won't ever be used for gaming.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
The format doesn't suck, I almost bought into it a few times but it's just a waste of money to buy a standalone player right now. HDDVD is inferior, mainly because of it's smaller size and not being used for games as well. Like you also mentioned, it can handle higher bitrates making it a better experience. Video/audiophiles will only really see and appreciate this but that's pretty much why I see BD as a superior format. Doesn't make HDDVD suck though.Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
I really don't think it will last any longer than another year. It's best for consumer and HDM, I love HD material and would never willingly go back to SD only. When you watch a NBA or NHL games in HD, it really becomes clear as to how much better it is than regular 4:3 SD. I still buy 16:9 SD movies though, bought CB4 last night:)Originally Posted by Sinfulfate
Stop with all the quoting, it's horrible to read and not how to structure an argument.
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It makes more sense when addressing each sentence.
I don't like it though.
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SourceLast we heard, Warner's "Total HD" hybrid disc was due in early 2008, but now the studio says it's on hold, with no release date currently in sight.
The studio shook things up at CES this past January when it announced that it would introduce a new HD DVD/Blu-ray hybrid disc by mid 2007. A single disc capable of being played on both Blu-ray and HD DVD players seemed to offer a compelling (if inefficient) short term solution for the format war, and appeared to be the anchor of Warner's dual-format stance throughout much of the year.
Alas, it looks like Total HD is not to be -- at least not in the foreseeable future. After previously delaying its initial mid-2007 launch date until early 2008, now the studio says that the hybrid format is "on hold for now."
In comments first published by TWICE Magazine, Warner Home Video president Ron Sanders explained, "we’re concerned that as the only one publishing on it, it would be hard to make it go." He went on to say the company was still talking to retailers about rolling out the hybrid format sometime in the future.
As for the rumors that Warner is weighing lucrative offers to go format-exclusive, Sanders acknowledged discussions with both camps, but seemed to indicate that the studio would support both high-def formats through the holiday shopping season.
"We’re talking to both sides and it’s crazy right now," said Sanders. "We remain committed to both for the time being. We’ll see how the fourth quarter plays out. The consumer is still kind of divided, and we still believe that we should offer the content in both formats. Now, we will watch the marketplace very closely, and see how it plays out, but for now we are supporting both."
I knew this would happen. The way HDM is right now, they don't want to risk this yet. If there were more studios supporting it, I could see it going somewhere but nobody is. Disc space is crucial for HDM, why would you want to cut the size in half right from the get go.