Barack Obama or John McCain?

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Zitat von mohaas05

I'm still waiting for Palin and McCain to tell us what they're going to do, because all they've done recently is attack Obama.

I don't see your point in Obama not being able to pass legislation, he has done so plenty of times in the past.

If anyone is unqualified for the job, its Palin. All she's ever done is governed a state with less than 20,000 people, much less be the VP of 500 million. She only got on the ticket because McCain was trying to siphon Clinton's supporters.

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You're off by a couple hundred million...

I don't know if this is useful or not about the unethical killing of animals, but..I found this..(I can't tell if some random blogger wrote it or someone with a significant amount of respect wrote it..anyways here it is)

https://community.hsus.org/humane/no...er_id=27497157

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Palin engineered a campaign of shooting predators from airplanes and helicopters, in order to artificially boost the populations of moose and caribou for trophy hunters. She offered a $150 bounty for the left foreleg of each dead wolf as an economic incentive for pilots and aerial gunners to kill more of the animals, even though Alaska voters had twice approved a ban on the practice. This year, the issue was up again for a vote of the people, and Palin led the fight against it -- in fact, she helped to spend $400,000 of public funds to defeat the initiative.

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Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has been a solid supporter of animal protection at both the state and federal levels. As an Illinois state senator, he backed at least a dozen animal protection laws, including those to strengthen the penalties for animal cruelty, to help animal shelters, to promote spaying and neutering, and to ban the slaughter of horses for human consumption. In the U.S. Senate, he has consistently co-sponsored multiple bills to combat animal fighting and horse slaughter, and has supported efforts to increase funding for adequate enforcement of the Animal Welfare Act, Humane Methods of Slaughter Act, and federal laws to combat animal fighting and puppy mills.

In his response to the HSLF questionnaire, he pledged support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and said he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Department of the Interior to make their policies more humane. He wrote of the important role animals play in our lives, as companions in our homes, as wildlife in their own environments, and as service animals working with law enforcement and assisting persons with disabilities. He also commented on the broader links between animal cruelty and violence in society.

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Zitat von NoEffex

I never called him a terrorist, I was merely thinking out loud that the Koran supports lying for the cause of Islam.

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So are you bringing up the Koran because you think hes a muslim? And i would like to see some proof (from the Koran itself) before i believe it.

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Zitat von NoEffex

You support Obama, who supports the unethical killing of animals, yet you don't support the unethical killing of animals? Contradictions here.

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Again, proof please :/

Obama is leading by 14 points now. Cant wait for the debate tonight :D

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Zitat von Slasher

You're off by a couple hundred million...

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Oops sry, 300 million

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Zitat von FreePlay

The American public education system is a socialist system. So is medicare/medicaid. So is our veteran's care system.

Private schools are better :Jump:

Care to keep talking about socialism like you know anything about it?I've got several friends over there and they all say they just want to come home and be done with it all.

But you cant just quit what you have started.

I hope your brother stays safe.You do realize that our economy is in the sh*tter because of LACK of regulation, right? Why would you argue against regulation??What utter nonsense.

thank you

To be brutally frank our economy is not that bad. No its not as good as it was . but its not bad(yet) You do realize that the dems legislation forced the banks to give out risky loans to people that should not have the right? it penalized banks for not giving loans and rewarded them for making risky loans. (giving loans to poor people to buy homes that could not pay them off thats smart) its the govs hand in this that caused the problems we have to do. Though i personally believe that the only regulation the gov needs to do (in the economy) is making sure the workers get payed, and there safety. other than that they should have no say in happens.

When you earn $10,000,000 per year and you pay $3,500,000 in taxes, you've still got $6,500,000 left each year. That's 35% tax, and you still wind up with as much money as probably 20 of your employees made in the same time period.

Pay 70% and you wind up with $3,000,000.

You think that $3,000,000 is NOT incentive to work hard?? Jesus christ, someone with a $10,000,000 salary could be paying 99% of their salary in tax and still be earning more than twice what I do BEFORE tax!! HONESTLY, you think it's WRONG to tax them more, when they're more capable of shouldering the burden?

I do agree that they make way too much. BUT taxing them for making money from there business.... that makes no sense! Its like "you made money, now we are going to take out a chunk of your money because we did nothing. we do need taxes. But we dont need a higher taxes on business. they will not take the tax! they will send it on down the line to the people that buys its products! Im currently getting my business Major, and if you think for one second that the business wont send it down the line, your dead wrong. I support the fair tax(look it up) unfortunately neither of the candidates support this. The other problem (for national debt) is The house and the Senate spend more capital than we have, thus our debt goes up(pork barrel spending) All we need is a sales tax, No more income tax, no more other taxes. All i believe that the gov should do for me is: Public services(highways... things that EVERYONE uses, The military/defense... other than that the gov should not be spending our money.

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Zitat von mohaas05

If anyone is unqualified for the job, its Palin. All she's ever done is governed a state with less than 20,000 people, much less be the VP of 500 million. She only got on the ticket because McCain was trying to siphon Clinton's supporters.

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wrong. she has a ton more executive experience than Obama and McCain put to gather.... the last time i checked, President is an executive position. Though you can (and now will) make the argument that McCain does not have the experience. and thats true in many ways. But i dont think that Obama comes close with about 2 years of senate, compared to McCains (life time) experience. what we need is experience.

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Zitat von Grimfate126

So are you bringing up the Koran because you think hes a Muslim? And i would like to see some proof (from the Koran itself) before i believe it.

Obama is leading by 14 points now. Cant wait for the debate tonight :D

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He's not technically a Muslim.... But he was raised in a school and his father was one too. Though we can not say that he is (nor can we say he is a christan) But we can say he has ties to the Muslim faith. Though it does not matter to me, just point out the fact.

and it should be very fun to watch.

Link:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...ama_muslim.htm

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Zitat von BTR711

what we need is experience.

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Did Abraham Lincoln have experience?

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Zitat von Grimfate126

So are you bringing up the Koran because you think hes a muslim? And i would like to see some proof (from the Koran itself) before i believe it.



Again, proof please :/

Obama is leading by 14 points now. Cant wait for the debate tonight :D

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He supports abortion. Enough said. I never said I thought he was a muslim. I don't even think he is. I know he was, he's said it multiple times. However, I also know he is not a christian, even though he claims to be.

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Zitat von NoEffex

He supports abortion. Enough said. I never said I thought he was a muslim. I don't even think he is. I know he was, he's said it multiple times. However, I also know he is not a christian, even though he claims to be.

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you have stopped give facts and i cannot argue opinions. It may be true that he supports abortion, but he's not the only one that does support it. Abortion does have some positives (would you let a baby be raised by an alcoholic mother and father, rather than not let him suffer through that? Not to mention if he is raised in that way, he could potentially be a criminal, causing unknown damages.) You make it sound like abortion was the devil's idea.

How do you know he is not a christian?

And how do you respond to the video posted by Abe?

Btw, what happened to the unethical killing of animals? I couldnt find a link to that.

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Zitat von Abe_Froeman

Did Abraham Lincoln have experience?

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was he in a middle of a war and a deteriating(sp) economy? *no*

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Zitat von BTR711

was he in a middle of a war and a deteriating(sp) economy? *no*

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His election prompted the south to secede and cause the Civil War. Remember that war?

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Zitat von Abe_Froeman

His election prompted the south to secede and cause the Civil War. Remember that war?

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but he was not in a middle of the war when he ran. though he was president when it started. 2 different things, he didnt intend on stopping/giving up till it was done(after it was started) one would win the other would lose.

You're missing the point, forget I dropped in to give this another chance. Please disregard.

Why does this thread suck so hard?




Actually, I think I've figured out he answer to my rhetorical question. You have at least [mostly] competent individuals on one side massively outnumbering the [mostly] incompetent(no offense), terrible debaters on the other side. This isn't a debate, it's a gang rape.

lol.

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Zitat von Grimfate126

you have stopped give facts and i cannot argue opinions. It may be true that he supports abortion, but he's not the only one that does support it. Abortion does have some positives (would you let a baby be raised by an alcoholic mother and father, rather than not let him suffer through that? Not to mention if he is raised in that way, he could potentially be a criminal, causing unknown damages.) You make it sound like abortion was the devil's idea.

How do you know he is not a christian?

And how do you respond to the video posted by Abe?

Btw, what happened to the unethical killing of animals? I couldnt find a link to that.

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You are killing the baby in cold blood with a vacuum, what is good about that? That's full blown murder.

I can't watch youtube videos for the fact that I'm using a 64-bit linux distribution which doesn't like flash support.

In addition, my whole point about unethical animal treatment is that you support not killing animals, yet you support killing of animals with a vacuum?

I live in a condo complex and alot of rich, elderly people live here and every single house door has an McCain/Palin sign. I'm the only house out of 60+ households that support Obama. I feel outnumbered here, then when I go around my city I see nothing about McCain, it's all Obama supporters.
lol
I guess the rich want to stay rich and not help out the needy.

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Zitat von BTR711

was he in a middle of a war and a deteriating(sp) economy? *no*

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He led the Union in the freaking Civil War. That's way more difficult that what we have now. Experience doesn't mean jack if McCain dies in 6 months. Because then, you'll have a person with way less experience than Obama leading this country.
-=Double Post Merge =-

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Zitat von NoEffex

You are killing the baby in cold blood with a vacuum, what is good about that? That's full blown murder.

I can't watch youtube videos for the fact that I'm using a 64-bit linux distribution which doesn't like flash support.

In addition, my whole point about unethical animal treatment is that you support not killing animals, yet you support killing of animals with a vacuum?

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It's still a fetus. It doesn't know anything. It can't make its own choice. Opinions are opinions. But to attack a candidate because of his opinion (and the opinion shared by millions of others) is ridiculous.

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Zitat von Frenchb0ygenius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7RZTlzXHmo

lol.

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That is hilarious. I saved it as MP3 and it's on my iPod.

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Zitat von PSPHax0r9

Why does this thread suck so hard?




Actually, I think I've figured out he answer to my rhetorical question. You have at least [mostly] competent individuals on one side massively outnumbering the [mostly] incompetent(no offense), terrible debaters on the other side. This isn't a debate, it's a gang rape.

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:humped::humped::humped:

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Zitat von BTR711

was he in a middle of a war and a deteriating(sp) economy? *no*

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WOW!
Please, leave this thread now, please.

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Zitat von Anti-QuickJay

WOW!
Please, leave this thread now, please.

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What I find funny is that FDR was probably the biggest "socialist" (or liberal) of all the presidents, and yet he was the one that got the U.S. out of the Great Depression. Flashback to the president before him by the name of Herbert Hoover, a Republican that did absolutely nothing to solve the Depression and just watched. The solution here is to have a hands-on government. When businesses can't support themselves, it's the right thing to do to help them. Not just say "screw them, they'll figure it out".

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Zitat von NoEffex

You are killing the baby in cold blood with a vacuum, what is good about that? That's full blown murder.

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Tell that to a 16 year old girl, who has no means to support the baby. If she keeps the baby, likely it will be abandoned, neglected, or raised in a dangerous setting.

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Zitat von mohaas05

Tell that to a 16 year old girl, who has no means to support the baby. If she keeps the baby, likely it will be abandoned, neglected, or raised in a dangerous setting.

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Or a rape victim.

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Zitat von mohaas05

Tell that to a 16 year old girl, who has no means to support the baby. If she keeps the baby, likely it will be abandoned, neglected, or raised in a dangerous setting.

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Or the baby can be emotionally hurt by not knowing his/her parents and feeling like he/she was a problem to his/her parents.

But abortion is a very complicated thing for me. I cannot decide if its good or bad because when I looks at the pros and cons of it I just cant decide.
-=Double Post Merge =-

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Zitat von -CHW42-

Or a rape victim.

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That too, then the baby may be a reminder of the incident or it may be too hard for the mother to cope with the fact that her babys father is a rapist.

You still should give the kid a chance.

For example, my friend got his girlfriend pregnant somewhere between 5-6 or so months, it's due pretty soon. Both of them know they are going to have a time supporting the kid, but they don't care, it's a kid dammit. Even if they're poor, they would happily have the kid, for quote by many, many people with kids "you do not know the meaning of love until you have a kid". IF she's a rape victim, she can hand it off to be adopted, that way she won't have to be involved in it's life.

You're against capital punishment, and for killing unborn babies? I mean, you let psychopaths who could kill anyone at any moment live, yet you won't let a kid have a chance at life? I mean, damn, that's ****ed up.

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Zitat von NoEffex

You still should give the kid a chance.

For example, my friend got his girlfriend pregnant somewhere between 5-6 or so months, it's due pretty soon. Both of them know they are going to have a time supporting the kid, but they don't care, it's a kid dammit. Even if they're poor, they would happily have the kid, for quote by many, many people with kids "you do not know the meaning of love until you have a kid". IF she's a rape victim, she can hand it off to be adopted, that way she won't have to be involved in it's life.

You're against capital punishment, and for killing unborn babies? I mean, you let psychopaths who could kill anyone at any moment live, yet you won't let a kid have a chance at life? I mean, damn, that's ****ed up.

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Unborn baby isn't a baby, its a fetus. I don't consider that life.
Giving a kid up for adoption may not always be good. What if the foster parents just take the kid for the money and end up beating him?
Plus the kid will not know his true parents and that can leave emotional scarring.

Everytime a guy masturbates and lets his load out, he is killing unborn babies too. So masturbation shouldnt be allowed?

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Zitat von NoEffex

You still should give the kid a chance.

For example, my friend got his girlfriend pregnant somewhere between 5-6 or so months, it's due pretty soon. Both of them know they are going to have a time supporting the kid, but they don't care, it's a kid dammit. Even if they're poor, they would happily have the kid, for quote by many, many people with kids "you do not know the meaning of love until you have a kid". IF she's a rape victim, she can hand it off to be adopted, that way she won't have to be involved in it's life.

You're against capital punishment, and for killing unborn babies? I mean, you let psychopaths who could kill anyone at any moment live, yet you won't let a kid have a chance at life? I mean, damn, that's ****ed up.

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That's like putting another person without a sense of purpose on the planet. The kid doesn't even know where he came from and who had made him. He'll be confused forever. Besides, the damn planet is over-populated enough. Our planet might not be sustainable in 50-100 years if our population growth keeps on going this way. We can't afford to have families of 10 anymore. The bottom line might be for people to stop ****ing so much. But hey, it's hard to control that for some people.
-=Double Post Merge =-

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Zitat von anti-quickjay

unborn baby isn't a baby, its a fetus. I don't consider that life.
Giving a kid up for adoption may not always be good. What if the foster parents just take the kid for the money and end up beating him?
Plus the kid will not know his true parents and that can leave emotional scarring.

everytime a guy masturbates and lets his load out, he is killing unborn babies too. So masturbation shouldnt be allowed?

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:roflol:

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Zitat von NoEffex

You still should give the kid a chance.

For example, my friend got his girlfriend pregnant somewhere between 5-6 or so months, it's due pretty soon. Both of them know they are going to have a time supporting the kid, but they don't care, it's a kid dammit. Even if they're poor, they would happily have the kid, for quote by many, many people with kids "you do not know the meaning of love until you have a kid". IF she's a rape victim, she can hand it off to be adopted, that way she won't have to be involved in it's life.

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Good for your friend. However, you cannot possibly guarantee that he would have had the kid if he was poor. And, since they are going to keep the baby, how will the quality of life for the baby be? Are they qualified to be parents?

You make some good points about adoption, but again, this is an opinion. I would much rather not be born than never know my biological parents.

Also, i would NEVER kill a baby that was that far into its development. That IS murder.

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Zitat von NoEffex

You're against capital punishment, and for killing unborn babies? I mean, you let psychopaths who could kill anyone at any moment live, yet you won't let a kid have a chance at life? I mean, damn, that's ****ed up.

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Personally, i am against capital punishment. Death is too quick. You want people who've committed unforgivable sins to just have 10-15 seconds of misery, and then escape? That is not fair to the people who's lives they have destroyed.

Not to mention, a fetus is NOT a baby, and it has no consciousness.

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Zitat von NoEffex

You still should give the kid a chance.

For example, my friend got his girlfriend pregnant somewhere between 5-6 or so months, it's due pretty soon. Both of them know they are going to have a time supporting the kid, but they don't care, it's a kid dammit. Even if they're poor, they would happily have the kid, for quote by many, many people with kids "you do not know the meaning of love until you have a kid". IF she's a rape victim, she can hand it off to be adopted, that way she won't have to be involved in it's life.

You're against capital punishment, and for killing unborn babies? I mean, you let psychopaths who could kill anyone at any moment live, yet you won't let a kid have a chance at life? I mean, damn, that's ****ed up.

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Who are YOU to tell somebody what to do with their body? It's a choice. A fetus should not be considered "life". It is undeveloped. Incapable of knowing anything. Why should somebody have to go through with pregnancy only to know they'll give it away to be adopted? Easy for you to say being a male. Put yourself in their shoes.

"you let psychopaths who could kill anyone at any moment live", in most cases, it really isn't that way. Letting them rot in prison for the rest of their lives I think is a much more suitable punishment. Let them recieve ****-meat sandwhiches for the rest of their lives I say.
"yet you won't let a kid have a chance at life?" It's not a kid when it's a fetus. It's a fetus. Simple as that.

There should be absolutely no say with somebody else's body. Ofcourse there's a big decision involved, but that decision should be left to the mother whether to have a child or to abort it.

Exactly, I want the criminals to suffer with years in jail. Not have a quick get out by death.

If i were a U.S citizen I'd 100% go with Obama. I mean, people who don't support abortions remind me of the Prolife group and bring forth cases that are similar to Joanna Jepson.

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Zitat von Prolife

The ProLife Alliance was established with the aim of securing the right to life of all human beings, from conception to natural death.

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And I mean all this bull**** people are pumping out, "The abotion president". If anything that would MAKE me support Obama. At least he's giving the people a choice. It's not like he's saying, "All women must have abortions, no more children allowed". Voting for Obama is a logical option.

Let's think of this metephorically.
There is a huge gorge, There are 2 ways across. A new, young healthy steel bridge with good stuctures.
Or a 20 year old rope bridge with planks made from old shovels and a dumb woman holding up the other side.
NOW when you think of it like that, the correct, mentally stable person would pick the Obama bridge.

Just thought i'd have my say.

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Zitat von NoEffex

I never called him a terrorist, I was merely thinking out loud that the Koran supports lying for the cause of Islam.

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Which completely invalidates your position, because you're saying (and you will NEVER admit this) that you think he's a liar, a Muslim, and a terrorist.

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Zitat von FreePlay

Which completely invalidates your position, because you're saying (and you will NEVER admit this) that you think he's a liar, a Muslim, and a terrorist.

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Exactly. Why else would he care if he was Muslim if it wasn't for him thinking that Muslim=terrorist?

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Zitat von NoEffex

He supports abortion. Enough said. I never said I thought he was a muslim. I don't even think he is. I know he was, he's said it multiple times. However, I also know he is not a christian, even though he claims to be.

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1. No, he has never said that.
2. You don't know sh*t.

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Zitat von NoEffex

You're against capital punishment, and for killing unborn babies? I mean, you let psychopaths who could kill anyone at any moment live, yet you won't let a kid have a chance at life? I mean, damn, that's ****ed up.

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I love that you think it's justified to kill criminals.

Pro-lifers are ALWAYS big capital punishment supporters and war boosters, and big enemies of socialized medicine/education. As soon as the fetus is out of the woman's body, they could give a rat's ass about it.

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Zitat von FreePlay

1. No, he has never said that.
2. You don't know sh*t.I love that you think it's justified to kill criminals.

Pro-lifers are ALWAYS big capital punishment supporters and war boosters, and big enemies of socialized medicine/education. As soon as the fetus is out of the woman's body, they could give a rat's ass about it.

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More confused people to join the army and fight wars. It makes sense now. It's all coming together!
-=Double Post Merge =-
I find it hilarious that you can watch the debates on MLB.com since the NLCS is going to be on Fox.

I have to watch the debates for Government but I'd rather watch my boys in blue.
I'll just watch a video of the debates later tonight.

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Zitat von Anti-QuickJay

I have to watch the debates for Government but I'd rather watch my boys in blue.
I'll just watch a video of the debates later tonight.

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same here, except ill be watching hockey. just about everyone knows who they are gonna vote for by now, this debate is mostly pointless.

I still like to see them debate, its nice to watch.

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Zitat von FreePlay

Which completely invalidates your position, because you're saying (and you will NEVER admit this) that you think he's a liar, a Muslim, and a terrorist.

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Why must you jump to assumptions? It seems you're quite the prejudice one.

YOU like killing babies and their mothers, but you will never admit it.
^^Perfect example of what you just did.

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Zitat von FreePlay

1. No, he has never said that.
2. You don't know sh*t.I love that you think it's justified to kill criminals.

Pro-lifers are ALWAYS big capital punishment supporters and war boosters, and big enemies of socialized medicine/education. As soon as the fetus is out of the woman's body, they could give a rat's ass about it.

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Naturally, if the criminal is a psychopath/sociopath who would kill without hesitation, of course they need to be killed(or at least stuck in a white room for the rest of their life), they're a huge threat. If someone is sane and killed someone from like a drug deal gone bad, they can rot in jail for the rest of their life.

Since when did I say I could give a rats ass about a baby that's just been born? Once again, stop making accusations.

You're making tons of accusations yet getting on me for making them? Hmm. Doctors, we have a serious case of irony.

Last I remember I'm quite educated and follow pretty much every news story and find out what's facts and what's fiction.

My apologies about accusing him of being muslim, I got his family and him mixed up. I also know that he is NOT Christian, and that at the least he is a humanist.