Barack Obama or John McCain?

[Anti-QuickJay]

really... i dont know if your joking with that video. but seriously just the fact that you posted this shows me that you (obama supporters) need to go after the vp... which isnt even going for the position that matter's in this thread. get back on topic! seriously i thought that moderators should control this... i guess not

ok so i asked this about 10 pages ago. i just got a new computer so now im back.

please! please! give me a serious answer(this time)! because no one did.Not even Freeplay. How is Obama change? please enlighten me.

If McCain doesn't live long enough to finish his term and if Sarah Palin is the new man in charge then I'll be scared.
Ya betcha I would.

[NoEffex]

Because McCain is a war monger and his next in line is a moron. So when he drops dead in six months, I don't want the reigns of the country handed over to a book burner.

I could go on for about two more hours typing, but I'm not. I don't care to talk politics with whoever you are and I'm going to leave it at that. (I've voted in the last three Presidential elections to show you my age.)

A bad speaker is not a moron. Last I remember being a governor, and getting a high approval rating, is harder than not passing any legislation and not writing your own speeches. Hell, I bet, if Obama's speech writers wrote for her, she would sound just as convincing.

On another note: You know the Koran promotes lying if it's to spread Islam?

On anoootthhher note: How many of you support the unethical treatment of animals? I'll make my point later.


In addition, do you honestly believe that if we disarm ourselves that we will do any good against countries with nukes who hate us?

[BTR711]

Because McCain is a war monger and his next in line is a moron. So when he drops dead in six months, I don't want the reigns of the country handed over to a book burner.

I could go on for about two more hours typing, but I'm not. I don't care to talk politics with whoever you are and I'm going to leave it at that. (I've voted in the last three Presidential elections to show you my age.)

yes hes a war monger because he fought in a war, was captured etc. at least he know what the troops are going threw. unlike obama. just about all the troops say that they want to finish the job and not bail out till then. seriously how does obama know what and how to do things? yes lets just quit so in a few years we will have to go back. yes maybe it was wrong to go in. but if we leave now then we will of lost everything we have accomplished.

a tidbit of info. in 1979 when Russia invaded Afghanistan, this was truely the start of our problems today. after russia bailed out (or exit plan) this lead to the Afghanistan revolution. which in turn gave power to osama bin laden which we supported to stop the spread of communism. Russia at this time was a superpower secound to us. then in 2001 we were atacked. my point is if you dont finish what you have started then the implications could effect others. oh obama is semi socialist, russia is communist (was but i still think it is) socialist is getting way to close for comfort, to becoming a communist. witch from my history lesson (hopefully pointed out why we cant bail out) and what side started this problem.


oh i wish you would tell me... well if you dont want to talk politics then why did you post here in the 1st place?

[NoEffex]

yes hes a war monger because he fought in a war, was captured etc. at least he know what the troops are going threw. unlike obama. just about all the troops say that they want to finish the job and not bail out till then. seriously how does obama know what and how to do things? yes lets just quit so in a few years we will have to go back. yes maybe it was wrong to go in. but if we leave now then we will of lost everything we have accomplished.

a tidbit of info. in 1979 when Russia invaded Afghanistan, this was truely the start of our problems today. after russia bailed out (or exit plan) this lead to the Afghanistan revolution. which in turn gave power to osama bin laden which we supported to stop the spread of communism. Russia at this time was a superpower secound to us. then in 2001 we were atacked. my point is if you dont finish what you have started then the implications could effect others. oh obama is semi socialist, russia is communist (was but i still think it is) socialist is getting way to close for comfort, to becoming a communist. witch from my history lesson (hopefully pointed out why we cant bail out) and what side started this problem.


oh i wish you would tell me... well if you dont want to talk politics then why did you post here in the 1st place?

Very much agreed with the socialist part. Actually, agreed.

[BTR711]

In addition, do you honestly believe that if we disarm ourselves that we will do any good against countries with nukes who hate us?

sir. Good point.

[Frenchb0ygenius]

just about all the troops say that they want to finish the job and not bail out till then.

Did the troops call you and tell you that? Or did you hear that from the media...
-=Double Post Merge =-

oh i wish you would tell me... well if you dont want to talk politics then why did you post here in the 1st place?

He doesn't want to talk politics with you. And I'm pretty sure I could imagine why.

[NoEffex]

Did the troops call you and tell you that? Or did you hear that from the media...
-=Double Post Merge =-


He doesn't want to talk politics with you. And I'm pretty sure I could imagine why.

God forbid he not be liberal.

[BTR711]

Did the troops call you and tell you that? Or did you hear that from the media...
-=Double Post Merge =-


He doesn't want to talk politics with you. And I'm pretty sure I could imagine why.

think or at least ask before you post something so ignorant. my older brother is fighting over there. and thats what he said. but hey what do i know. im just a non socialist


so you want this thread to be one sided? i think that defeats the purpose of this thread doesn't it? ;-)

[mohaas05]

yes hes a war monger because he fought in a war, was captured etc. at least he know what the troops are going threw. unlike obama. just about all the troops say that they want to finish the job and not bail out till then. seriously how does obama know what and how to do things? yes lets just quit so in a few years we will have to go back. yes maybe it was wrong to go in. but if we leave now then we will of lost everything we have accomplished.

a tidbit of info. in 1979 when Russia invaded Afghanistan, this was truely the start of our problems today. after russia bailed out (or exit plan) this lead to the Afghanistan revolution. which in turn gave power to osama bin laden which we supported to stop the spread of communism. Russia at this time was a superpower secound to us. then in 2001 we were atacked. my point is if you dont finish what you have started then the implications could effect others. oh obama is semi socialist, russia is communist (was but i still think it is) socialist is getting way to close for comfort, to becoming a communist. witch from my history lesson (hopefully pointed out why we cant bail out) and what side started this problem.


oh i wish you would tell me... well if you dont want to talk politics then why did you post here in the 1st place?

It was actually the United States who funded Afghan militants, including Osama bin Laden. So in effect, we helped bring 9/11 on ourselves.

[Frenchb0ygenius]

Did the troops call you and tell you that? Or did you hear that from the media...
-=Double Post Merge =-


He doesn't want to talk politics with you. And I'm pretty sure I could imagine why.

think or at least ask before you post something so ignorant. my older brother is fighting over there. and thats what he said. but hey what do i know. im just a non socialist

I did ask...and now I have my answer lol.

[Seven_]

think or at least ask before you post something so ignorant. my older brother is fighting over there. and thats what he said. but hey what do i know. im just a non socialist


so you want this thread to be one sided? i think that defeats the purpose of this thread doesn't it? ;-)

Of course the thread is supposed to have opposition, but not for all of the wrong reasons.

[NoEffex]

So wait, you're refusing to argue with him..because he's a non-socialist? That's awfully prejudice of you. Socialism is a horrible idea that causes great nations to fall. Words cannot express how horrible of an idea it is.

Still, no one has answered my question. Do you support unethical killing of animals?

[Seven_]

So wait, you're refusing to argue with him..because he's a non-socialist? That's awfully prejudice of you. Socialism is a horrible idea that causes great nations to fall. Words cannot express how horrible of an idea it is.

Socialism sounds good on paper to me. But I don't think that a full socialist program of any kind can be put into effect without huge issues.

[NoEffex]

Socialism sounds good on paper to me. But I don't think that a full socialist program of any kind can be put into effect without huge issues.

It sounds good and fair, but it would never work. This nation thrives on competition, and as we speak, the Socialist party is doing all they can to make the government control every aspect, every sale, every merger, everything. In addition, they want to tax the rich, who have EARNED their money, a hellish amount. That in itself promotes not working hard. Life isn't fair, it never will be, nor ever has. I don't know why people insist on Socialism.

Still, no one has answered my question. Do you support unethical killing of animals?

[Seven_]

Do you support unethical killing of animals?

No, and I never will.

[BTR711]

Socialism sounds good on paper to me. But I don't think that a full socialist program of any kind can be put into effect without huge issues.

the only way such an idea could ever work is if we had a perfect socity, which can not be acheaved. never has and never will as long as people want to be better than others. *competition*

Of course the thread is supposed to have opposition, but not for all of the wrong reasons.

what are these wrong reasons? im just asking questions... i dont see whats so wrong... how can we learn with out questions and looking back on history? like obama's?

[Seven_]

what are these wrong reasons? im just asking questions... i dont see whats so wrong... how can we learn with out questions and looking back on history? like obama's?

I was referring back to something that was said much earlier in the thread, it wasn't directed at either of the candidates. :P

[NoEffex]

No, and I never will.

Who might I ask are you voting for?

[FreePlay]

On another note: You know the Koran promotes lying if it's to spread Islam?

You keep up this f***ing idiocy about Obama being a Muslim, as if it would be AT ALL RELEVANT even if he were one. What are you so afraid of?

Very much agreed with the socialist part. Actually, agreed.

Socialism is a horrible idea that causes great nations to fall. Words cannot express how horrible of an idea it is.

The American public education system is a socialist system. So is medicare/medicaid. So is our veteran's care system.

Care to keep talking about socialism like you know anything about it?

think or at least ask before you post something so ignorant. my older brother is fighting over there. and thats what he said.

I've got several friends over there and they all say they just want to come home and be done with it all.

I hope your brother stays safe.

This nation thrives on competition, and as we speak, the Socialist party is doing all they can to make the government control every aspect, every sale, every merger, everything.

You do realize that our economy is in the sh*tter because of LACK of regulation, right? Why would you argue against regulation??

In addition, they want to tax the rich, who have EARNED their money, a hellish amount. That in itself promotes not working hard.

What utter nonsense.

When you earn $10,000,000 per year and you pay $3,500,000 in taxes, you've still got $6,500,000 left each year. That's 35% tax, and you still wind up with as much money as probably 20 of your employees made in the same time period.

Pay 70% and you wind up with $3,000,000.

You think that $3,000,000 is NOT incentive to work hard?? Jesus christ, someone with a $10,000,000 salary could be paying 99% of their salary in tax and still be earning more than twice what I do BEFORE tax!! HONESTLY, you think it's WRONG to tax them more, when they're more capable of shouldering the burden?

[NoEffex]

You keep up this f***ing idiocy about Obama being a Muslim, as if it would be AT ALL RELEVANT even if he were one. What are you so afraid of?

The American public education system is a socialist system. So is medicare/medicaid. So is our veteran's care system.

Care to keep talking about socialism like you know anything about it?I've got several friends over there and they all say they just want to come home and be done with it all.

I hope your brother stays safe.You do realize that our economy is in the sh*tter because of LACK of regulation, right? Why would you argue against regulation??What utter nonsense.

When you earn $10,000,000 per year and you pay $3,500,000 in taxes, you've still got $6,500,000 left each year. That's 35% tax, and you still wind up with as much money as probably 20 of your employees made in the same time period.

Pay 70% and you wind up with $3,000,000.

You think that $3,000,000 is NOT incentive to work hard?? Jesus christ, someone with a $10,000,000 salary could be paying 99% of their salary in tax and still be earning more than twice what I do BEFORE tax!! HONESTLY, you think it's WRONG to tax them more, when they're more capable of shouldering the burden?

Taxing someone like that is HONESTLY unfair. Putting other peoples problems on people who don't deserve it. Good one.

Our economy, right now, is in the ****ter because of taxes. Not just any taxes, but taxes against the big boys. Since they enjoy profits, when they get taxes more, they increase prices, meaning you're actually the ones who paid for it.

Besides which, our economy naturally goes through it's ups and downs. Right now, if our government would let most of it go, our economy would recover, because the banks who are being greedy realize they cannot continue with it, and they will make loans to people who can afford it. You can't just have an economy that always stays the same, it will continuously go up and down.

And saying that I think socialism is bad makes me know nothing about it? *facepalm*

Also, why do you support the unethical killing of animals?

[Darth Budd]

When you earn $10,000,000 per year and you pay $3,500,000 in taxes, you've still got $6,500,000 left each year. That's 35% tax, and you still wind up with as much money as probably 20 of your employees made in the same time period.

Pay 70% and you wind up with $3,000,000.

You think that $3,000,000 is NOT incentive to work hard?? Jesus christ, someone with a $10,000,000 salary could be paying 99% of their salary in tax and still be earning more than twice what I do BEFORE tax!! HONESTLY, you think it's WRONG to tax them more, when they're more capable of shouldering the burden?

but then they can't afford golden toilets...

[Chathurga]

On anoootthhher note: How many of you support the unethical treatment of animals? I'll make my point later.

If it in anyway benefits humanity as a whole then yes I fully support "the unethical treatment of animals".

[NoEffex]

but then they can't afford golden toilets...

What you don't realize is that stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is horrible. It's stealing goddammit. If they've earned it, they have every right to keep all of it. if it was up to me the fairtax would be into play, everyone gets taxed the same, and we won't have the major inflation like would happen if we taxed the lower/middle class more. And by the way, before you speak, I'm low middle class.

I was talking to freeplay, poster above me.

[Darth Budd]

What you don't realize is that stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is horrible. It's stealing goddammit. If they've earned it, they have every right to keep all of it. if it was up to me the fairtax would be into play, everyone gets taxed the same, and we won't have the major inflation like would happen if we taxed the lower/middle class more. And by the way, before you speak, I'm low middle class.

I was talking to freeplay, poster above me.

dude, i was being sarcastic, who the hell would want a golden toilet?

[NoEffex]

dude, i was being sarcastic, who the hell would want a golden toilet?

My bad then, lol.

On another note, here is a perfect reason why taxing the "rich" more would not work. A friend of mine's parents make a TON. I mean, ridiculous amounts of cash. The thing is, they don't see a cent of it, and they're on the verge of being kicked out of their apartments. Why? Because they're so far in debt, and taxes. If there was not those same taxes, they would not be in this situation.

[-chw42-]

I really hate people.

Where was that filmed? Philadelphia (I saw a guy with a Phillies jersey)? No wonder...people there are always rowdy.

[.A.J.]

I am an independent minded voter and I have been following this election for nearly a year now. I had been trying to withhold judgment until after the debates but after watching the two conventions (yes, most of each parties'), the first three debates and recent events I've become solidly decided for Obama and Biden. The following is some of my reasoning.

McCain is not an impressive man in any way but his P.O.W. story. He claims credit for supporting veterans yet repeatedly (4 times) voted against increased funding for the needs of veterans returning from the current Middle East conflicts. Multiple veterans groups rate him as a D whereas the same groups score Obama and Biden a B. His claims of success for the surge are overstated, given the lack of political progress amongst Iraqi's. McCain has also, until very recently, stubbornly opposed (in line with the Bush administration) any time line for withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq. A time line Obama, the Democrats, moderate Republicans, and all three tribal sects of Iraqi's [one of the few positions they all share (and the people whose nation we are discussing)] all requested. McCain touts, as some of his maverick credentials, campaign finance and immigration reform. Less than two months after submitting his plan for immigration reform, he stated himself that he would not vote for it...only after millions of people nationwide protested against it. His campaign finance reform bill merely pushed that which it supposedly aimed to eliminate into unregulated, privately funded political action groups that are unaccountable for their claims (a.k.a. 527 groups).

Palin believes in creationism (Flintstones anyone?). Her claim to fame is being the "maverick reformer" which was the easiest way to gain public support considering that the corruption in Alaska was a known issue by the time she rode it to the governorship. When potential corruption in her own office became an issue, she claimed that she and her staff would cooperate with the bipartisan decision to move forward with an investigation. A Republican representative from her own town of Wasilla, Alaska cast the deciding vote to move forward with the investigation. Now that she is suddenly thrust onto the national stage as the Republican nominee for V.P., the republicans are crying foul and inferring that Obama, or his campaign, are conspiring to smear her image and that they will not cooperate with the same investigation. The investigation that found she had committed ethics violations and which she promptly declared the investigation did not find what it said it found. Palin did not even have the ability to run a minuscule town of 5,000-10,000 people, having to resort to hiring a city manager to accomplish her duties as mayor. That even after assuring the people of Wasilla that she could fulfill the duties of the office of mayor. Apparently she's just "a decider."

Obama, while somewhat lacking in experience, is the better educated man, who chose not the money that was clearly within his grasp upon graduation, but instead to serve the people who had not the means to pay him. What does that say about his character? Obama consistently displays a balanced temperament, in contrast to McCains well established and self professed lack of self control with regard to his temper. Obama's judgment, while consistently attacked by his opponents, has been proven correct in the matters of a time line for troop withdrawal as motivation for Iraqi's to take control of their nation and in the desperate need for additional troops in Afghanistan, the true central front in the "war on terror". Obama's domestic energy policy has clear foresight. He has been willing to compromise on drilling so long as a new balance can be struck between oil, clean coal, shale oil and renewable and green energy sources-the actual long term solution to our situation. Obama, as many of our leaders before him regardless of party affiliation, has faith in what the U.S.A.'s citizens and corporations ingenuity and drive can accomplish. Obama has been criticized for seeking ambitious new spending... the likes of which got us to the moon and has given us countless new technologies and materials from which this nation and much of humanity has greatly benefited. Ronald Regan was similarly attacked for his vision of the Star Wars program which has evolved into todays missile defense system and is on it's way to being a viable option for defending our nation and our allies. While most of Washington doesn't believe we can even secure our border, Obama understands that we can achieve energy independence while reestablishing our economic strength and standing.

Any and all those who criticize Obama for being Muslim, Arabic, a terrorist or anything of the sort, not to mention believe that there is anything innately wrong with being Arabic or Muslim, are ignorant, bigoted, fear mongers the likes of which need to be educated and introduced to the twenty-first century.



How is Obama change?

The mere fact that he is a well educated man is change. Change from Bush who is a moron, change from McCain who graduated damn near last in his class (and probably wasn't kicked out because daddy was an admiral), and different from Palin who is dumb enough that she needs to be sheltered from any press who isn't slanted by the right wing and might ask her a legitimate question and expect a legitimate response (did I mention creationism?).

He is change because he has proven, by graduating law school and working for the poor, that he actually has the less fortunate in mind.

He is change in that he wants to focus tax breaks towards those who actually need them, as opposed to McCain who wants to cut the Capitol Gains Tax.

He is change because he, unlike McCain, is not the one who has been in Washington for twenty plus years, championing deregulation, following the crowd which ultimately lead us into our economic situation and later supporting Bush ninety (yes 90, .9 or 9/10) percent of the time during his administration.

He is change because he had the hindsight, foresight and fortitude to say no to Bush's war in Iraq when doing so labeled him unpatriotic and weak. In retrospect, invading Iraq helped Bin Laden continue to evade capture, destabilized a regional power which was no threat to us and we already had in check, strengthened and emboldened Iran and managed to further destabilize the entire region.

He is change because he is discussing facts and issue's while his opponent is playing traditional political games. Games designed specifically to appeal to voters' emotions while ignoring logic and failing to seek solutions to the problems average Americans have.

Wake up and smell the reality. Obama is change. You can't deny it, you can only disagree with it's direction.

[-chw42-]

really... i dont know if your joking with that video. but seriously just the fact that you posted this shows me that you (obama supporters) need to go after the vp... which isnt even going for the position that matter's in this thread. get back on topic! seriously i thought that moderators should control this... i guess not

ok so i asked this about 10 pages ago. i just got a new computer so now im back.

please! please! give me a serious answer(this time)! because no one did.Not even Freeplay. How is Obama change? please enlighten me.

Sarah Palin says a lot of stupid things. Why shouldn't people go after stupid people? It's almost natural.

[Darth Budd]

you do know that you have to be a near genius just to get into Annapolis right? and i think the gpa spread from top to bottom of his class was less that 0.10. ill start digging up that link i read it at least 6 months ago

[-chw42-]

A bad speaker is not a moron. Last I remember being a governor, and getting a high approval rating, is harder than not passing any legislation and not writing your own speeches. Hell, I bet, if Obama's speech writers wrote for her, she would sound just as convincing.

On another note: You know the Koran promotes lying if it's to spread Islam?

On anoootthhher note: How many of you support the unethical treatment of animals? I'll make my point later.


In addition, do you honestly believe that if we disarm ourselves that we will do any good against countries with nukes who hate us?

The U.S. would be the last country to disarm itself.

Do you seriously believe that Obama is a terrorist or a some kind of a messenger for Islam? Seriously, how ignorant must you be? He was raised as a Christian. He only has Islamic roots because of his father. However, that's not even his true religion. Besides, not even 1% of the Islamic population has the mindset of those that Al Queda possess.
-=Double Post Merge =-

yes hes a war monger because he fought in a war, was captured etc. at least he know what the troops are going threw. unlike obama. just about all the troops say that they want to finish the job and not bail out till then. seriously how does obama know what and how to do things? yes lets just quit so in a few years we will have to go back. yes maybe it was wrong to go in. but if we leave now then we will of lost everything we have accomplished.

a tidbit of info. in 1979 when Russia invaded Afghanistan, this was truely the start of our problems today. after russia bailed out (or exit plan) this lead to the Afghanistan revolution. which in turn gave power to osama bin laden which we supported to stop the spread of communism. Russia at this time was a superpower secound to us. then in 2001 we were atacked. my point is if you dont finish what you have started then the implications could effect others. oh obama is semi socialist, russia is communist (was but i still think it is) socialist is getting way to close for comfort, to becoming a communist. witch from my history lesson (hopefully pointed out why we cant bail out) and what side started this problem.


oh i wish you would tell me... well if you dont want to talk politics then why did you post here in the 1st place?

Socialism is a form of government. Communism is a form of economy. They have very little to do with each other. Don't get them confused.

Russia btw, is no longer communist/socialist. The only true communist nations in the world right now are Cuba and North Korea.
-=Double Post Merge =-

think or at least ask before you post something so ignorant. my older brother is fighting over there. and thats what he said. but hey what do i know. im just a non socialist


so you want this thread to be one sided? i think that defeats the purpose of this thread doesn't it? ;-)

If Obama was actually socialist, I'm sure nobody would be voting for him. Especially the mass majority of the American voters who are in the middle of the spectrum that usually decide who wins the election. Obama wouldn't be leading all the pollings right now if he were an actual socialist. Face it, you're a biased conservative who makes something minor into a big explosion of total stupidity. Obama has Muslim roots so he's trying to convert us all into Muslims right? Obama is more liberal so he's a socialist right?

BTW, your brother is only one person out of thousands in Iraq. He does not represent the entire U.S. armed forces stationed over there.

Seriously, I would expect better out of people than to use stupid stereotypes.