Would you like to get all the newest Gaming News from
QJ.NET in your email each day?
Want to learn more about the team who brings you the QJ news?
Read about them now!
This is a discussion on God Talk - Now with (hopefully) 100% less spam and flaming! within the General Off Topic+ forums, part of the QJ.net Forum Miscellaneous category; Originally Posted by FreePlay Oh, give me a break. I don't hate Christians. I hate that religious groups receive privileges ...
Last edited by Aftamath; 12-15-2008 at 08:09 AM.
I didn't say I hated those groups.Originally Posted by FreePlay
I also hate the thought of people gaining happiness and hope from something that, from all the present evidence, doesn't really seem to exist.
[I fail @ life]
One question Freeplay:
What compensations are you talking about? Just curious. I've been thinking about it and can't really think of any stand-out things.
But many churches also function as nonprofit organizations that provide services, such as providing education, welfare, etc. That function of them should deserve breaks.
There are also negative things to churches though. I stopped going because I simply started disagreeing with the messages. I didn't tell a single person why I stopped going. All of my friends from the same church started criticizing me, calling me a bad person, saying I was going to hell, and I was actually looked down upon by others. That was only after missing 3 straight services... That probably pushed me away from Christianity the most.
I guess my point is that there are pros but cons aswell. I feel that the stereotypical stubborn christian is single minded and if you don't believe what he or she believes then you are misguided.
Sometimes they do sometimes they just grow out of it. My transition from Christianity to... "nothing" was actually like a rebirth in some ways. I feel more carefree because I don't have to worry as much about living up to certain people's standards and I wasn't constantly nagged to help people.Originally Posted by Freeplay
I've debated with a few people about this topic and it gets nowhere. The discussions are irritating and no one wins. Yes, I believe that there are several contradictions and unrealistic traits about the Bible and the entire religion altogether but some people don't care and don't want to hear it.Originally Posted by Freeplay
I also go back to the Santa story. You said you hate the thought of people gaining happiness from something that doesn't exist. Theoretically, wouldn't you hate the story of Santa then? I think there's more to it then what you said there.
I'm still not sure what privileges you are talking about though. I don't think they get any special treatment unless it's within their own religion or group.
Last edited by Gr34t3st; 12-15-2008 at 06:05 PM.
Religious groups garner an automatic level of respect that they have done nothing to earn. Examples:Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, page 32Monotheistic chauvinism was until recently written into the charity law of both England and Scotland, discriminating against polytheistic religions in granting tax-exempt status, while allowing an easy ride to charities whose object was to promote monotheistic religion, sparing them the rigorous vetting quite properly required of secular charities.
Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, page 32-33The aptly named Oral Roberts once told his television audience that God would kill him unless they gave him $8 million. Almost unbelievably, it worked. Tax-free! Roberts himself is still going strong, as is 'Oral Roberts University' of Tulsa, Oklahoma. Its buildings, valued at $250 million, were directly commissioned by God himself in these words: 'Raise up your students to hear My voice, to go where My light is dim, where My voice is heard small, and My healing power is not known, even to the uttermost bounds of the Earth. Their work will exceed yours, and in this I am well pleased.'
Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, page 44David Mills, in his admirable book Atheist Universe, tells a story which you would dismiss as an unrealistic caricature of police bigotry if it were fiction. A Christian faith-healer ran a 'Miracle Crusade' which came to Mills's home town once a year. Among other things, the faith-healer encouraged diabetics to throw away their insulin, and cancer patients to give up their chemotherapy and pray for a miracle instead. Reasonably enough, Mills decided to organize a peaceful demonstration to warn people. But he made the mistake of going to the police to tell them of his intention and ask for police protection against possible attacks from supporters of the faith-healer. The first police officer to whom he spoke asked, 'Is you gonna protest fir him or 'gin him?' (meaning for or against the faith-healer). When Mills replied, 'Against him,' the policeman said that he himself planned to attend the rally and intended to spit personally in Mills's face as he marched past Mills's demonstration.
Mills decided to try his luck with a second police officer. This one said that if any of the faith-healer's supporters violently confronted Mills, the officer would arrest Mills because he was 'trying to interfere with God's work'. Mills went home and tried telephoning the police station, in the hope of finding more sympathy at a senior level. He was finally connected to a sergeant who said, 'To hell with you, Buddy. No policeman wants to protect a goddamned atheist. I hope somebody bloodies you up good.' Apparently adverbs were in short supply in this police station, along with the milk of human kindness and a sense of duty. Mills relates that he spoke to about seven or eight policemen that day. None of them was helpful, and most of them directly threatened Mills with violence.
These are just a sampling. Even more aggravating is that religious people expect me to change my behavior to accommodate their religious traditions, and when I refuse I'm told that I'm "intolerant" or a "bigot".
[I fail @ life]
Interesting debate going on here...However, after 100+ posts I think I'm a little late to the party. After reading several of your posts on this subject, I am assuming you take an Empirical view of God/Existance? If so, I invite you to follow your own conclusions and tell me where it ends. If you don't quite follow what I am talking about, go read the Metaphysical philosophies of Hume and Sartre to there respective conclusions.
If you really want to be objective and non-biased as possible in your beliefs, please read "The Mind of God: The Scientific Basis for a Rational World" by Paul Davies.
Oh and BTW i had fun reading this...especially the quotes above.
Jatt101, you really don't have to quote the guy right above you, please. It just makes the thread longer. No offense. I like those spheres of heavenly milk on your profile picture.
I love God...there. That's my belief, and don't try to change it (note to everyone).
Calypso - Enjoy the excellent 2D space shooter:
"Quoting yourself in your signature means you love to masterbate while looking at the mirror." -me (oh, wait...)
well thats your belief
everyone has their own =]
I would love God if the Bible didn't make him out to be such a dick.
[I fail @ life]
I have this crazy idea that religion is to keep humans hopping and to keep peace without religion I think there would be chaos. I still believe in god somewhat, but where has he been during those ****ed up periods of my life?
Hello to all, haven't been around in a while.
This is a prime example of why I particularly dislike religion. Just because you believe in a higher power doesn't make you immune to the metaphorical (if not literal sometimes) ****storm that life can throw your way.
My problem is with people who push their beliefs on others in any way shape or form. If you're religious, and you keep it to yourself, fine. I'm an atheist, but I'm not an ass of an atheist and shove it down people's throat. If it comes up, I will speak, but if I see someone wearing a cross I won't comment. What I will stand up against is people bring religion where it doesn't need to be. Government, and personal choices. Abortion is a woman's choice, and just because they believe that it's a sin doesn't mean EVERYONE else does. I enjoy living my life without a God, it's such a fairy tale to me. My other problem is modern christians or pseudo-christians. People who pick and choose, then still act righteous. It's a sheer state of hypocrisy.
I can say honestly that most people I meet that are religious I lose some level of respect for.
I like a simple answer as to why people can't get over the God-complex.
People believe they are all important. That everything in the universe revolves around them, so of course, they think that if there was a God it would be like them. Of course this God would pay special attention to all humans, and nothing else. Well, if you push past your ego for a moment, and realize how infinitesimally small we are in relation to the rest of the universe, you can't even really how insignificant we are. There are billions of galaxies, with trillions of stars that are capable of having a planet that can support life. Why are humans so un-endingly important?
You may make the argument that this doesn't disprove god, and I would agree. But it certainly makes the bible seem a little silly doesn't it?
I subsribe to logic. What can be seen and observed, not blindly believed in. For example. Image a graph, with a straight line. How many points are there? An infinite amount of points, so by that degree we can apply it to everything. The keyboard your typing on, one key is both infinitely small and large at the same time. You can always measure smaller to an infinite degree, and larger to an infinite degree (based on perspective obviously)
So that space bar seems pretty short, but you can measure half of it. Then half that, and half that, forever and ever, half the size of an atom. Half that, and so on. At the same time, the Universe is an infinitely large void, and goes on forever, it's boundaries are given based on the farthest object.
To this extent, it is possible to theorize that everything can be related to this infinite-sort-of theory. There may be an infinite amount of dimensions. No, not like TV show dimensions and alternate realities, more like more dimensions in our same space that simply do no react to our 4 dimensions, so maybe the 34 and 35 dimensions are almost the exact same in properties, but are different enough to not interact with out plane, but exist in the same space.
The reason I enjoy being an atheist is that I can wonder all I like. No, there may never be answers, but as Isaac Asimov has said...well, read my sig.
To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.
I personally find it pointless to dwell on the irrelevant. How many points make up a line? Who cares. Logic should be used to better yourself. Instead of spending time on the trivial its best to analyze what affects you. How has religion screwed up your values? Or how has the govt? Or your parents. How does what you say affect others? What does someones body language show you? Basically how do you better yourself so more people like you, so you get more connections and so you have a better life.
I dont wonder, I walk the path i create.
I haven't really looked at people's posts, but I've been working through religion and spirituality for quite some time and maybe have some insights. Ideally, I believe a religion should let you be completely co****table with who you are, and since all religions seem to follow codes and none of them were written by you, you are essentially trying to change yourself to fit the bill of a religion and destroying who you are. I think the best way to God is through more of a spirituality and finding your own path. I believe God exists but not in the way most people view him, it's kinda complex and weird mainly because you ever have something that you kind of felt you knew all the pieces to your whole life but you never realized it as truth? That's kind of what it was like to realize my path.
I used to be a Christian, and my parents were rather conservative, I had issues with things in the bible and what they taught because it contradicted maybe not in the actual words but against my own heart. The way I saw love, it was different than it was portrayed in the bible, and that love should have been more powerful than certain things and it didn't seem to be, like that whole issue with hell. For a while I believed the whole spiel anyways, but I started letting go of it bit by bit and really thinking about myself, my identity, and my relationship with God if it existed.
I've come to think after my realization that explaining your religious beliefs won't help in really explaining your religious beliefs, the kind of realization that I had is hard to explain unless you can understand the concept of knowing all the facts, all the things, but it not being really real to you. I feel discussing religion isn't necessary, mainly because it seems pretty oriented to converts, and I'm pretty co****table with other people and them finding whatever truth is eventually. I do not worry about converting for the reason that I feel life is spiritualities teacher, and nothing else can really bring you in a substantial direction.
I'd like to put a disclaimer at the end that I am not attacking anyone, and that whatever you believe is true is fine with me, if you disagree with me, that's fine and I'm not close-minded to opinions, but to truly explain what you believe deep in your heart takes more than words.