Water Powered Engine

[RandomThinker]

Recently i have been researching electrolysis and water powered cars and i was wondering if anyone here had any ideas about a gaseous hydrogen fuel injection system or anything else that might help. Thanks

[b2p1mp]

hydrogen gas sounds a bit dangerous, but hell, so is gasoline....

Remember Hindenberg.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_disaster

[Archaemic]

Note: it was mostly the envelope of the Hindenburg that burnt, not the hydrogen.
Note 2: the most of the people who died from the Hindenburg disaster were the people who jumped from the craft thinking they had a better chance of living.

E] Seems my original sources were exaggerating.

[b2p1mp]

Hmmm at least someone knows a bit about the hydrogen. Being a previous chemistry major i have had some experience with gathering hydrogen gas from dehydating hyrdrous crystals... No engineering experience here though....
But there is a possibility of using the lifting power of hydrogen gas to produce electricity in a similar fashion as the gravity pulled hydro systems...just inverse sorta...

[RandomThinker]

well as long as the hydrogen is handled correctly it can be fairly safe seeing as i have a small electrolyzer and i plan to use it on an "on demand basis" meaning i will make the hydrogen as i need it so there is never a large ammount of hydrogen in any one space, but i need to figure out how to run a small engine on it which will take some time and thinking and hopefully a little help from the qj.net goers thanks

[FreePlay]

A water-based engine is so unfeasible as to be ignored out-of-hand.

The sheer amount of energy required to split up the water into enough hydrogen to be used as fuel would far outweigh the energy the hydrogen itself could produce. It's a complete loss.

[RandomThinker]

not really. i have an electroylser that runs on a car battery and it is creating far more hydrogen then is nessary to run a small engine and it is attached to an alternator so the energy is required is created by a small grinder motor which is attached to the battery so it is pretty much good to attach to an engine but i need to figure out compression ratios and things of that sort and i was hoping that maby someone else has pondered this idea and posted on this forum but if not ow well it will just give me more work

[Soulphalanx]

well, guess what, your car battery's gonna run out, and the hydrogen made running the engine isnt gonna replenish it. And by the law of conservation, same energy turns into the same energy in theory and perfect conditions. Since there's conversion involved, energy gets lost as heat or sound, causing your engine to lose energy in general.

What freeplay said is true, You're running at a loss.

[RandomThinker]

yes this is completely true except for the dieing battery because it is attached to the alternator which recharges it. And yes i know there are flaws in my theory and my electrolyser cell but it is possible http://waterpoweredcar.com/ because it has been done before but it seems like people here only want to put my ideas down which i realize u can be trying to help keep me from loosing time and money but it isn't that expensive and its my time so not to be mean or rude or anything like that but if you don't think it can be done don't tell me just please keep it to yourself and thank you for taking time to give your opinion but to be honest it didnt help

[FreePlay]

It's not going to happen, period. Your car's engine is powering the motion of the car, which is lossy. The conversion through the alternator is also lossy. The electrolysis is IMMENSELY lossy. (You cannot convince me that it's a worthwhile process - the amount of energy required for electrolysis is too prohibitive.)

You're losing energy everywhere in the process, and it simply isn't feasible.

Besides, if the electrolyser runs off the car battery, you'd need a normal engine as well to charge the battery. Otherwise you'd just run out of energy and be done with it. There couldn't possibly be enough energy left over to run the car and thus charge the battery through the alternator.

Also, that guy Stan whatshisname that you linked to is full of sh*t. He said that he was running a hydrogen/oxygen fuel in an INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE. First of all... "a hydrogen/oxygen fuel" isn't water. Second, if it WERE water, it certainly wouldn't COMBUST.

[RandomThinker]

ok first Stan Myers did do it, it had news coverage http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJ3juM6vHwg

second "water car" means that that water is what you put in th the fuel tank "not what combusts, but i thought that was obvious"

third it doesn't require that much energy to create electrolysis

fourth you obviously haven't made or studied anything about electrolysis or you would have known all of the afore mentioned

This is what happens, all it does is pass electricity through the water and the electrolyte "helps conduct electricity" which loosens the bond between the hydrogen and the oxygen which results in 2hydrogen atoms h2 and two oxygen atoms 02 they then pass into the ICE where they are pressurized by the piston and then blown up by the spark plug

its not that complicated and it has been done so stop trying to stop me help if you can but discouraging words dont help if I fail I will tell all of you and you can gloat but until then give only helpful advise again thank you for your help

[Jatt101]

^seriously, I would think breaking a covalent (O-H) would require, IDK, 4000KJ of energy. If its that easy, why haven't we already done it?

[RandomThinker]

theres actually lots of reasons, one of which is that if there was mass production of these vehicles the economy would crash, think about all the money going toward gasoline every day and then all of the sudden that money is pulled out of circulation

the only way we could have such hydrogen powered cars is if we converted gass stations in to hydrogen stations and just lowered the cost a little "this would make everything good right, the average person has more money and there is still lots in circulation, WRONG" imagine the car accidents, hydrogen is much more explosive than gasoline so it is not safe to have a large storage of hydrogen its just not safe the death rate would sky rocket.

the design I have if with and on board electrolyser which would mean you only have small quantities of hydrogen and lots of water,

and about the electricity you can make hydrogen with a nine volt battery don't believe me try it:

get the following,
- 9V battery + battery strap
- average sized glass
- water + baking soda mixture
- 2 pieces of tin foil
- 2 alligator clips
- 2 pieces of wire

First: Fill the glass with the water solution

Second: roll the tin foil in to 2 pencil sized tubes and flatten them

Third: Clip the alligator clips to the tin foil pieces

Fourth: attach the wire to the alligator clips

Fifth: attach the other end of the wire to the battery clip

Lastly: attach the battery clip to the battery an d place the tin foil pieces in to the water " put them close but don't let them touch if it doesn't check all connections

the bubbles are O2 and H2 you can make the pop with a lighter but be careful

[FreePlay]

Are you serious? You think the economy would collapse because of a shift to a different fuel source?

Have you ever heard of the word 'gradual'?

And seriously, it's NOT possible for a car battery to produce enough energy to power a hydrolysis reaction strong enough to fuel the car.

And hydrogen would not be stored in gas form. There's little chance of it exploding.

Just because you hydrolised some water in science class does not mean you're qualified to design a water-based engine. It's not going to happen.

[Jatt101]

I'm guessing you also figured out how to separate H2 & O2 when they're being produced. Arn't you also going to get O radicals?

[RandomThinker]

there is no need because the o2 produced is the exact amount of oxygen required for the combustion and there are bound to be a few radicals but not enough to change the overall effect
-= Double Post =-
ok and freeplay i would like it is you stopped posting because you have yet to say anything worth wile and you just try to be cool by putting down others ideas and stating bull **** that doesn't help anyone

[Jatt101]

there is no need because the o2 produced is the exact amount of oxygen required for the combustion and there are bound to be a few radicals but not enough to change the overall effect

I still don't find this feasible, if the reaction is and the engine operation is that easy...Why havn't we done this already?

Think about it...during 60-70 decade...solar energy started to pick up due to couple of advances in technology and chemistry. During that time big oil & gas company starting buying mines across the world in thinking that solar energy would one day be equal with gas power. That never happened but today one statistic showed that oil companies own much as 50% of copper mines across the U.S.

What I'm trying to say is that this would be in mass production by now, entrepreneurs & investment company & even government would be jumping on a invention like this.

[Art]

No, the government supress inventions like this.

During the four months I worked for a fuel company I saw one.
It was an ordinary carb engine modified.
It still used some fuel but produced hydrogen as required with it's alternator.
It's not important to me whether or not I'm believed.

[Jatt101]

No, the government supress inventions like this.

During the four months I worked for a fuel company I saw one.
It was an ordinary carb engine modified.
It still used some fuel but produced hydrogen as required with it's alternator.
It's not important to me whether or not I'm believed.

Well, it might not be well recieved in the U.S. just because we get lobbyed by every other company.

But what about some random country in Asia or even south America. They would love to make something like and make money out of it.

[Art]

Perhaps, but it's not my invention.

There is a whole book about suppressed inventions, I think it is called
Suppressed ideas and inventions, some would have to be conspiracy theories,
while others would clearly work.
Some random country should get a copy.

http://www.nutech2000.com/prod12.htm

[RandomThinker]

finally Art, some one who knows thats its possible and from what little he said it seems to strikingly similar to the one me and some nameless others are working on. And its those carb changes that i need to discover and jatt101 you seem to be undecided but a great reason why this is not mass produced now is like ART said the government seizes things of this sort and because of close minded individuals "who happen to be the majority of this web sight as i am now learning"

Apparently other countries do http://youtube.com/watch?v=E1OWDcWoXHs

[FreePlay]

Closed-minded? No, not at all. We just know science, and we know bad science even better.

Thing is, most of the inventions you'd consider 'suppressed' are really just refused for one of many reasons, e.g.:

1. Not cost-efficient
2. Too difficult to produce
3. Too expensive to produce
4. No resources available to mass-market
5. Potentially unsafe
6. Not thoroughly tested
7. No demand in the market

Et cetera. You've got to remember, we're dealing with a regulated industry here. Many things that you'd consider "suppressed" really just don't fit the regulations.

[Art]

There was an extra hose to the carb.

I met the guy because he came onto a site asking questions about ethanol
(10 % ethanol fuel), it's been around in the states for a while, but is quite new in Australia.
Bells went off in my head when he mentioned hydrogen because a mate of
mine had been talking to me about the same thing.

I honestly believe we will kill ourselves before any of this takes off in a big way.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView...Max=&SUBCATID=
Same with solar, thye are underdeveloped because noone is interested.
If people were as interested in solar as they are in mobile phones then
photovoltaic panels would probably be a viable option for powering homes
by now.

[RandomThinker]

Ok Fagplay I Dont Want To Hear About Your Bullsh*t Ideas If You Dont Think This Is Possible Just Stop Posting, What You Say Makes Sense In Most Cases But Not This One, Do Some Research And Then I Might Accept Your Ideas But Until The Stop Posting Your Not Helping Anyone

[FreePlay]

I *DO* do my research. That's why I know it won't work. Where's your evidence? Your proof? Your test results? You have nothing, just a bunch of nonsensical, counter-factual claims.

Science doesn't work that way. You don't assume something is true until you disprove it. You have to support your position with (gasp!) actual facts.

By the way, GJ typing in all caps, Captain Angermanagement.

[Ciaran_]

Ok Fagplay I Dont Want To Hear About Your Bullsh*t Ideas If You Dont Think This Is Possible Just Stop Posting, What You Say Makes Sense In Most Cases But Not This One, Do Some Research And Then I Might Accept Your Ideas But Until The Stop Posting Your Not Helping Anyone

He's allowed to post in here if he wants. If you think his idea is wrong then disprove him.

[RandomThinker]

i do have evidence, i have an electrolyser and i have a small engine that runs on it now "no thanks to you", i do have proof because the engine "does" work, and i have test results because obviously i have tested it and it does work so obviously science does work that way. Where's your evidence? Where's your proof? Where's your test results? now i have figured out how to do that which i created this thread for so i would now like any help with making it larger scale if you can help me in this goal please do. Thank you

[FreePlay]

My evidence, proof, and test results for what? I'm not the one making the ridiculous claim.

Let's SEE your evidence. I'm sure you could take a photograph.

What the hell powers the electrolyser?

[J_C_103]

I agree all the way with FreePlay, It just seems so damn redundant to even explore an alternate fuel source when the energy output is less than the energy input. Maybe if drilling in ANWR was happening we would all appreciate the internal combustion engine a bit more. I do believe that a good ground for reasoning does not include a high school science class experiment. :ROFL:

[RandomThinker]

if you had read the earlier post you would know that i have a car battery running the electrolyser, and now when the engine's drive shaft turns, it turns an alternator which in turn changes the mechanical energy into electrical energy which charges the original car battery and it all happens again,
you see it makes sense and it works, tell me how this doesn't work and i will tell you how it does, because i have one and it works, so there will always be an answer