Large Hadron Collider (LHC)

[Sir_Axxewraith]

Soo, Apparently it's turned on in 6 days (UK)..

Will it work, What's your opinion ?

Me personally have become obsessed with the fact, that it will create a black hole and kill us all.. (Save, "the end is near" jokes)..

Scary :|

Magpie12

[PopeOfDope]

May 2008 is the turn on date. It was originally meant to be 26th Nov 07 but it got delayed.
http://www.physorg.com/news101730821.html

[Sir_Axxewraith]

hmm

A few more months to live then

Nah, What do you think will happen ? .. Will it work ?

[Archaemic]

I don't think that it's going to create a black hole that will kill us all. Even if it does create miniature black holes, they will evaporate quickly (Hawking radiation has to come from SOMEWHERE, right? ...assuming Hawking radiation actually exists, at least) and not get much time to suck stuff up (nor much stuff to suck up. Their event horizons are so small that primarily what they're warping is vacuum). I don't know if it'll find any God Particles, but it'll sure provide a lot of data to be crunched.

Here, I'll do some math for you. Let's assume that it's smashing two electrons together with a total energy of 14 TeV (about what it can do). This means the resulting black hole would have a mass of 14 TeV/c^2 = 2.4962*10^-23 kg. That's really tiny. So let's calculate its Schwarzschild radius: 3.694376*10^-50 m. That is so tiny...you can't even conceive how tiny that is. One electron is on the order of 10^-18 m. So really, nothing CAN'T escape from that radius.

[Sir_Axxewraith]

yeaa, Higgins atoms

I knew you'd turn up somewhere in this

And the points you make are valid, The fact is that if a black hole IS created they will most probably destroy themselves almost instantaniously.

Magpie12

[PopeOfDope]

Originally Posted by magpie12

yeaa, Higgins atoms

It's a Higgs Boson. An atom isn't a fundamental particle.

[Archaemic]

Physics calculations added to my previous post.

Wow, I knew the black holes were small, but not THAT small...

The values don't seem right, though...especially reading on Wikipedia, which seems to be contradicting itself anyway...
E] Nevermind, I was reading the exponents wrong. The values do appear to be right.

[FreePlay]

oh lawd, we's awl gwine t'dah

[explosions]

Originally Posted by FreePlay

oh lawd, we's awl gwine t'dah

I lol'd.

[EminentJonFrost]

Originally Posted by FreePlay

oh lawd, we's awl gwine t'dah

i dont get it.
*awaits explanation and prepares to feel stupid*

how big of a black hole would have to be made to suck in and crush everyone to oblivion?

[Sir_Axxewraith]

oh lawd, we's awl gwine t'dah

Oh lord, We're all going to die.. I think?

And not a very big one, well, Bigger than the ones the LHC will create..

[FreePlay]

Originally Posted by magpie12

oh lawd, we's awl gwine t'dah

Oh lord, We're all going to die.. I think?

you think wisely

[EminentJonFrost]

'gwine' is what lost me. lol

[FranzH]

Originally Posted by EminentJonFrost

'gwine' is what lost me. lol

I think he meant it to sound like Guu[g]-win[wine] but it came out gwine lol.

[Sir_Axxewraith]

So.. How big did they say it was .. like 6km ! ?

[Archaemic]

It has a circumference of about 26km.

[PSPotential]

Safety concerns and assurances

As with previous particle accelerators, people both inside and outside the physics community have voiced concern that the LHC might trigger one of several theoretical disasters capable of destroying the Earth or even the entire Universe. This has raised controversy as to whether any such risks outweigh the potential benefits of constructing and operating the LHC.

Though the standard model predicts that LHC energies are far too low to create black holes, some nonstandard theories lower the requirements, and predict that the LHC will create tiny black holes[9][10], with potentially devastating consequences. The primary cause for concern is that Hawking Radiation - a postulated means by which any such black holes would dissipate before becoming dangerous, remains entirely theoretical. In academia, the theory of Hawking Radiation is considered plausible, but there remains considerable question of whether it is correct.[11]

Other disaster scenarios typically involve the following theoretical events:

* Creation of strange matter that is more stable than ordinary matter
* Creation of magnetic monopoles that could catalyze proton decay
* Creation of a strangelet

CERN has pointed out that the probability of such events is extremely small. One argument for the safety of colliders such as the LHC states that if the Earth were in danger of any such fate, the Earth and Moon would have met that fate billions of years ago due to their constant bombardment from space by very high energy cosmic rays such as protons and other particles, which are millions of times more energetic than anything that could be produced by the LHC.[12]

Quantum calculations presented in the CERN report predict that:

* Any black holes created by the LHC are not expected to be stable and will not accrete matter.
* Any monopoles that could catalyse the decay of matter will quickly exit the Earth.[13]

[FreePlay]

Thanks for the Wikipedia copypasta. Mmm, mmm.

[Dio]

Today was the first time I saw this thread, and I was like "OH CRAP TODAY IS THE 26TH" but then I saw the link and now I am temporarily relieved XD But I would seriously laugh my ass off but also be scared if the black holes grew larger at a constant rate.

[FranzH]

I would love to be there when they fire that baby up. I think out Physics class will be taking a trip there sometime.

Must be great working with quantum physics and all the strange things it can throw up.

[SpiderJames]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle1630897.ece

oh gosh! supposedly scientists have created a time machine to view the big bang, but a group of experts on time travel say it will create billions of mini black holes and suck the earth out of existence. I lol'd

[legacyxero]

lolllz

[rock4christ]

hmm... it could create black holes, but it'll be ****ing awesome! I say do it!

[explosions]

Large Hadron Collider (LHC)

[Mister Chief]

Threads merged.

[teeth_03]

Originally Posted by Mister Chief

Threads merged.

had both open and it confused me for a second

Now, now kiddies,we cant possibly destroy ourselves now,then whats gonna happen in 2012?!!!!!!!!!

/joke

[cowsruledaworld]

Originally Posted by PSPotential

Safety concerns and assurances

As with previous particle accelerators, people both inside and outside the physics community have voiced concern that the LHC might trigger one of several theoretical disasters capable of destroying the Earth or even the entire Universe. This has raised controversy as to whether any such risks outweigh the potential benefits of constructing and operating the LHC.

Though the standard model predicts that LHC energies are far too low to create black holes, some nonstandard theories lower the requirements, and predict that the LHC will create tiny black holes[9][10], with potentially devastating consequences. The primary cause for concern is that Hawking Radiation - a postulated means by which any such black holes would dissipate before becoming dangerous, remains entirely theoretical. In academia, the theory of Hawking Radiation is considered plausible, but there remains considerable question of whether it is correct.[11]

Other disaster scenarios typically involve the following theoretical events:

* Creation of strange matter that is more stable than ordinary matter
* Creation of magnetic monopoles that could catalyze proton decay
* Creation of a strangelet

CERN has pointed out that the probability of such events is extremely small. One argument for the safety of colliders such as the LHC states that if the Earth were in danger of any such fate, the Earth and Moon would have met that fate billions of years ago due to their constant bombardment from space by very high energy cosmic rays such as protons and other particles, which are millions of times more energetic than anything that could be produced by the LHC.[12]

Quantum calculations presented in the CERN report predict that:

* Any black holes created by the LHC are not expected to be stable and will not accrete matter.
* Any monopoles that could catalyse the decay of matter will quickly exit the Earth.[13]

Lets be practical here. Would any person living on Earth want scientists to test a device that can " trigger one of several theoretical disasters capable of destroying the Earth or even the entire Universe."

I highly doubt it.

If they did, they are mad emo.

Now, I know about the H-bomb and A-bombs, but I think the world has seen how disastrous those situations were.

I highly recommend reading this, it explains all misconceptions, and other lovely things. http://www.universetoday.com/2008/06...rth-after-all/

[UknownKiller]

If anyone didn't read the news http://news.aol.com/article/10-billi...-launch/167810
im on an laptop sorry can't copy and past
Anyway, what do you think well happen I belive the project lunch tomorrow
worst thing to see when logging onto the internet
edit-

"GENEVA (Sept. 9) - Scientists will launch an experiment in a tunnel deep beneath the French-Swiss border Wednesday, hoping to find evidence of extra dimensions, invisible "dark matter," and an elusive particle called the "Higgs boson."
And although leading physicists such as Stephen Hawking say the atom-smashing experiment will be absolutely safe, some skeptics fear the proton collisions could unleash microscopic black holes that would eventually doom the Earth.
Critics Fear It's a Doomsday Machine
Martial Trezzini, Keystone / AP
8 photos


In a tunnel deep beneath the French-Swiss border, scientists have been working for a generation to build the largest and most expensive science experiment in history. The project will be launched Wednesday and its mission will be to recreate the "big bang" as closely as possible.
(Note: Please disable your pop-up blocker)
The most powerful atom-smasher ever built will produce collisions of protons traveling at nearly the speed of light in the circular tunnel, giving off showers of particles that will provide more clues as to how everything in the universe is made.
In the $10 billion project — the most extensive physics experiment in history — the Large Hadron Collider will come ever closer to re-enacting the "big bang," the theory that a colossal explosion created the cosmos.
The project, organized by the 20 member nations of the European Organization for Nuclear Research — known by its French initials CERN — has attracted researchers of 80 nationalities. Some 1,200 are from the United States, an observer country that contributed $531 million.
The collider is designed to push the proton beam close to the speed of light, moving around the 17-mile tunnel at 11,000 times a second at full power. Ramping up to full power is probably a year away.
Smaller colliders have been used for decades to study the atom. Scientists once thought protons and neutrons were the smallest components of an atom's nucleus, but experiments have shown they were made of still smaller quarks and gluons, and that there were other forces and particles.
The CERN experiments could reveal more about "dark matter," antimatter and possibly hidden dimensions of space and time. It could also find evidence of the hypothetical particle — the Higgs boson — which is sometimes called the "God particle." It is believed to give mass to all other particles, and thus to matter that makes up the universe.
The two beams of protons will travel in two tubes about the width of fire hoses, speeding through a vacuum that is colder and emptier than outer space. Their trajectory will be curved by supercooled magnets — to guide the beams. The paths of these beams will cross, and a few protons will collide. The two largest detectors — essentially huge digital cameras weighing thousands of tons — are capable of taking millions of snapshots a second.
Some skeptics have said the collisions could result in tiny black holes — subatomic versions of collapsed stars whose gravity is so strong they can suck in planets and other stars.
Micro black holes produced by a collider, the critics theorize, would move more slowly and might be trapped inside the Earth's gravitational field — and eventually threaten the planet.
"It's nonsense," said CERN chief spokesman James Gillies.
John Ellis, a British theoretical physicist at CERN, said doomsayers assume that the collider will create micro black holes in the first place, which he called unlikely. And even if they appeared, he said, they would instantly evaporate, as predicted by Hawking.
Gillies told The Associated Press that the most dangerous thing that could happen would be if a beam at full power were to go out of control, and that would only damage the collider itself and burrow into the rock around the tunnel.
"On Wednesday, we start small," Gillies said. "What we're putting in to start with is one single low intensity bunch at low energy and we thread that around. We get experience with low energy things and then we ramp up as we get to know the machine better."
Huge amounts of data will pour in — so big that the lab's computers can't sift through it all. So scientists, who will monitor the experiment at above-ground control centers, have devised a way to share the load among dozens of leading computing centers worldwide.
The result is the "LHC Grid," a network of 60,000 computers to analyze what happens when protons are hurled at each other. That computing power is needed if scientists are to find what they are looking for among the mountains of data.
"You can think of each experiment as a giant digital camera with around 150 million pixels taking snapshots 600 million times a second," said CERN's Ian Bird, who leads the grid project.
Sophisticated filters discard all but the most interesting data, still leaving some 15 petabytes to be analyzed. That's enough to fill 2 million DVDs.
The data will be sent to 11 top research institutions in Europe, North America and Asia, and from there to a wider network of 150 research facilities around the world for scrutiny by thousands of researchers.
Collaborating on such a large project has proved invaluable, said Ruth Pordes, executive director of the Open Science Grid at Fermilab in Chicago. The U.S.-government funded project is among the major contributors to the grid.
"We are doing things that are at the boundaries of science," Pordes said. "But the technologies, the methods and the results will be picked up by industry."
Scientists expect grid computing to become more widely used, for research ranging from new drugs to nuclear energy. Eventually, consumers will start seeing it in daily life to regulate traffic, predict the weather or help a flagging economy.
So even if the LHC experiment doesn't yield answers to the cosmic questions, historians may one day see it as a key step in developing networked computing.
It wouldn't be the first time that has happened at CERN. In 1990, a young British researcher there created a computer-based system for sharing information with colleagues around the world.
He called it the World Wide Web.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. Active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
2008-09-09 17:53:26"

[dutronic]

13 more minutes pacific time

EDIT: lol, http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/

web cams

http://atlas.ch/webcams.html

http://pcatdwww.cern.ch/atlas-point1/ATLASview/ACR.htm

http://cms-project-cmsinfo.web.cern....eye/index.html

[UknownKiller]

Originally Posted by dutronic

13 more minutes pacific time

EDIT: lol, http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/

web cams

http://atlas.ch/webcams.html

http://pcatdwww.cern.ch/atlas-point1/ATLASview/ACR.htm

http://cms-project-cmsinfo.web.cern....eye/index.html

lol @ first link....
Imnot checking the webcams tho>.>
What the webcams about?
I don't want see some worker eating donuts or something dumb because my internet is acting like dail up at this time>.<