What was there before the universe?

[Tito0096]

I've always asked this question and nobody can ever give me some type of answer. So what do you guys think? I know most of you are going to say, "Nothing". But what is nothing exactly? It can't be empty space, because that is something. So what exactly was there before the universe. I want to hear your thoughts.

that is when time it self started and god influenced (not make) the big bang to make it how it is right now (god does not make he influences BIG DIFFERENCE RIGHT THERE)

[atcha123]

want more proof?



Allah Almighty Said: "And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh ROSY LIKE RED HIDE - (The Noble Quran, 55:37)"
What Allah Almighty is Saying here is that when Galaxies explode, they form a red-rose-shaped explosion. He is also telling us that the Universe will all turn into red exploded galaxies looking like red or reddish roses when the Day of Judgement happens.

The explosion of Stars (FORMING RED ROSES), Galaxies and the Universe in the Noble Quran had been confirmed by NASA.


sure ask for some more...:)

hmmmm...i agree with dante...

[Dreamkillr]

The universe has been there for millons of years before christ and it will be there after people realize there is no christ. Only millons of trying to hold onto and old idea. As for the universe its made up of stars engry and things will will neverunderstand.

[atcha123]

prett darn nice image....hey! how did you get 10,000 points?!!

[Dreamkillr]

Abe Froeman gave me the points.

[Tito0096]

umm why???

[Dreamkillr]

The User Abe_Froeman has just sent you a Donation in the amount of 10000.

Reason: Old school.
Thats the reason i got.

[atcha123]

back on topic please

anyway i agree with dante

[Chathurga]

Who wrote the passage concerning the rose?

[atcha123]

Who wrote the passage concerning the rose?

it was mincho

[Chathurga]

No, I mean who actually wrote it.

[atcha123]

god told the prophet muhammad to write it...the image is evidence

[Chathurga]

Now why would god do that?

[atcha123]

Mohammad (pbuh) wrote it?

First, he was illiterate !! How can an illiterate person come up with such a rich, poetic, intellectual, and inspiring text that it rocked the entire Arabia?

Mohammad (pbuh) never went to school! No one taught him. He had no teacher of any kind in any subjects. How can he have the knowledge of all the science, astronomy, oceanography, etc that is contained in the Quran? (For example, the mention of ocean currents, stars, earth, moon, sun and their fixed paths in Soorah Rahman; and many other scientific statements that are found in Quran, that I cannot state in this short article)

When Quran was revealed, the Arabic language was at its peak in richness, poetic value, literature, etc. Quran came and challenged the best literature in Arabic, the best poetry in Arabic of the time. Mohammad (pbuh) being illiterate couldnt possibly have come up with something so immaculate that it even exceded the best of poetry, and literature in Arabic at the time of the language's PEAK development. Arabic language had never been so rich in expression, poetic value, vocabulary, and variety in literature, as it was in the time of Quran. At a time like this, Quran came and exceeded the best of Arabic in all aspects of the language: poetry, literature, expression, etc. Any classical Arabic speaker would appreciate the unbeatten, unchallenged, and unmatched beauty of the language of Quran.




WAS QURAN WRITTEN OR INSPIRED?

"Behold! The angels said: "O Mary! God has chosen you and purified you - Chosen you above the women of all nations." Qur'an-3:42

THE SOURCE OF HIS MESSAGE

"Chosen you above the women of all nations." Such an honour is not to be found given to Mary even in the Christian Bible!

Knowing full-well, and believing as we do, that the whole Quran is the veritable Word of God, we will nevertheless agree, for the sake of argument, with the enemies of Muhammed (pbuh) for a moment, that he wrote it. We can now expect some cooperation from the unbeliever.

Ask him, "Have you any qualms in agreeing that Muhammed (pbuh) was an Arab?" Only an opinionated fool will hesitate to agree. In that case there is no sense in pursuing any discussion. Cut short the talk. Close the book!

With the man of reason, we proceed. "That this Arab, in the first instance, was addressing other Arabs. He was not talking to Indian Muslims, Chinese Muslims, or Nigerian Muslims. He was addressing his own people - the Arabs. Whether they agreed with him or not, he told them in the most sublime form - words that were seared into the hearts and minds of his listeners that Mary the mother of Jesus -A JEWESS- was chosen above the women of all nations. Not his own mother, nor his wife nor his daughter, nor any other Arab woman, but a Jewess! Can one explain this? Because to everyone his own mother or wife, or daughter would come before other women.

Why would the Prophet of Islam honour a woman from his opposition! and a Jewess at that! belonging to a race which had been looking down upon his people for three thousand years? Just as they still look down upon their Arab brethren today.


for the best of information about mary jesus who wrote the quran is here,
http://www.themodernreligion.com/bas..._who_wrote.htm

[Smileyguy597]

there was no before the universe... everything we se and interact with has a begining and an end... day turns into night, people are born and in the blink of an eye are dead, that 80's show had a particularly short run (if anyone remembers) the only exeption is chuck norris who always was and always will be... but if you want a real answer i think that before the universe was god... and thats it...

[Chathurga]

If I have to sy this one more time I will explode.
THERE WAS NO BEFORE THE UNIVERSE BECAUSE THE UNIVERSE CREATED TIME

[sanguinus]

I read a theory that when our universe began it was infintessiminally small but when the big bang happened our universe grew really large and the 6th dimension shrank and during the big crunch the sixth dimension will grow and ours will shrink again so I believe that it is a cycle of bangs and crunches.

[atcha123]

I read a theory that when our universe began it was infintessiminally small but when the big bang happened our universe grew really large and the 6th dimension shrank and during the big crunch the sixth dimension will grow and ours will shrink again so I believe that it is a cycle of bangs and crunches.

The Big Bang Theory is the dominant scientific theory about the origin of the universe. According to the big bang, the universe was created from a cosmic explosion that hurled matter in all directions. In 1927, Georges Lemaître was the first to propose that the universe began with the explosion of a primeval atom. Years later, Edwin Hubble found experimental evidence to help justify Lemaître's theory. He found that distant galaxies in every direction are going away from us with speeds proportional to their distance. The theory also predicts the existence of cosmic background radiation (the glow left over from the explosion itself). The Big Bang Theory received its strongest confirmation when this radiation was discovered in 1964 by Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, who later won the Nobel Prize for this discovery. Until now, the cosmic microwave background, big bang nucleosynthesis, and the observed Hubble expansion of the Universe are considered proof of the big bang theory.


According to the Big Bang, the whole universe was initially one big mass. Then there was a Big Bang [explosion] which resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon, etc. The origin of the universe was unique and the probability of it occurring by chance is zero.


In the Quran, Allah says,


“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of mass), before we clove them asunder? …” 21:30


In 41:53, Allah says,

41:53 In time We will show them Our Signs in the utmost Horizons and within themselves, so that it will become clear to them that this Qur'an is indeed the Truth. Is it not enough for them to know that your Lord is Witness to all things (including this proclamation)?

[LampShade]

A new star forming out of a cloud of gas and dust (nebula), which is one of the remnants of the "smoke" that was the origin of the whole universe. (The Space Atlas, Heather and Henbest, page 50)
Allah Almighty said: "Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...(The Noble Quran, 41:11)"
The Noble Quran on the Origin of the Universe
Only Islam claims that the universe was originated from Dust and Hot Gas, or Smoke.

And your quote of "Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke" is cut short but of not much. The whole thing is "Then He Istawâ (rose over) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come, willingly."".
But any way smoke represents mess, chaos, disorder, nothing(and I don't mean nothing as in zero but as in remains[like when you burn some thing], or a big space that is empty but for the smoke). So it is just saying out of chaos, disorder and nothing he created this as the world, the heavens which is seen as beauty.
And "Smoke" is the best description for a nebula. In the Description he could have used cloud instead of smoke but clouds are seen as innocent and soft.

Allah Almighty Said: "And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh ROSY LIKE RED HIDE - (The Noble Quran, 55:37)"

What Allah Almighty is Saying here is that when Galaxies explode, they form a red-rose-shaped explosion. He is also telling us that the Universe will all turn into red exploded galaxies looking like red or reddish roses when the Day of Judgement happens.

First off, Galaxies don't explode. Nebulas are made from stars that have died (imploded). And in what the "Almighty Allah" said WHEN THE HEAVEN SPLITTETH ASUNDER. A star is not heaven, space is.


And a note to all: The reason man turned to religion was because of things that could not be explained like the heavens which we no now as space, lighting, life, death, our existence and a lot of the world. Religion gave man the answers he sought, and a reason to live and stride to be more. Now in the 21st century where the questions have been answered people still hold on to religion. And They hold on buy 3 strings. Creation of the Universe, Creation of life, and What "is" this Universe. The creation has been explained with the big bang but there is no hard core proof (as in any divine entity like god), Creation of life has been explained with the simplicity it is to make organic matter and the sheer number of planets in which that organic matter may actually turn in to life and survive and evolve, proof? Plenty sure you know a little hell lot more proof of that than that of a divine entity like god). And what "is" the Universe, no one knows much on that topic.

I don't like threads disscussing this topic because no one can win.

[Mister Chief]

I am so gald I am atheist.

[demologik]

our "universe" is actually part of a "multiverse"

space is just a big pc.

[Chathurga]

You better be joking.

[LampShade]

I am so gald I am atheist.

Me to. I use to be christian but I kept on questioning what I was being taught and what other religions where taught. My first argument was the rainbow and the second, why the christian god the "real" god? What about the Hindus? Muslims? Why should they be wrong with there religion.
Religion should only exist to guide your lives nothing more.

space is just a big pc.

Are you high?

[FreePlay]

If the Quran is 100% divinely inspired, why are there verses in it that cancel out older verses? Wouldn't that mean that the divine inspiration changed its mind?

Only Islam claims that the universe was originated from Dust and Hot Gas, or Smoke.

Which is completely wrong, because no matter existed during the Big Bang. It was all energy.

Allah Almighty Said: "And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh ROSY LIKE RED HIDE - (The Noble Quran, 55:37)"
What Allah Almighty is Saying here is that when Galaxies explode, they form a red-rose-shaped explosion. He is also telling us that the Universe will all turn into red exploded galaxies looking like red or reddish roses when the Day of Judgement happens.

Oh, COME ON. "Rosy like red hide" says absolutely nothing about roses. It is talking about ROSY-COLORED - red or pink.

Oh and I'd like to quote a little something out of the Quran:

Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas ? Is there any God beside Allah ? Nay, but most of them know not!

That translates to the earth is in a fixed postion. :ROFL:

More than that, it claims that there are only two seas.

yeah sometimes, devil eavesdropping to the conversation of allah and the angels, so a falling star strikes the devil!

Except that stars don't fall. Not actual stars.

41:53 In time We will show them Our Signs in the utmost Horizons and within themselves, so that it will become clear to them that this Qur'an is indeed the Truth. Is it not enough for them to know that your Lord is Witness to all things (including this proclamation)?

In other words, "God will explain everything eventually. For now, tell everyone to stop asking pesky questions."

I'm not arguing that there's no divine inspiration. I could do the same thing with the Bible, or any other holy book. Rather, I argue that, like the Bible, at least SOME part of it is mankind's ideas, not God's.

Anyways.

Regardless of your religious beliefs, a concept of "before the universe" is not logically coherent. Time came into existence with the universe, so there cannot be anything "before time." If you believe that God exists outside of time, then there was no time "when" He created the universe. If you don't believe in God, there could be nothing happening within time "before" time existed.

It's a meaningless argument. It's like arguing about whether the light in the fridge stays on when you close the door. Of course it f***ing doesn't; it wasn't designed to do that The answer is bleedingly obvious.

[Kold Kalamity]

[QUOTE=LampShade]Me to. I use to be christian but I kept on questioning what I was being taught and what other religions where taught. My first argument was the rainbow and the second, why the christian god the "real" god? What about the Hindus? Muslims? Why should they be wrong with there religion.
Religion should only exist to guide your lives nothing more.
QUOTE]

Same here, although there are a few small differences in my choices and reasons.
BTW: Space is a big PC. I know, cuz I checked! The sun is fiery hot because The Divine Author had his hard drive on for so long. Space itself is like Google. The stars are web sites. I'm telling you it's true!

[LampShade]

BTW: Space is a big PC. I know, cuz I checked! The sun is fiery hot because The Divine Author had his hard drive on for so long. Space itself is like Google. The stars are web sites. I'm telling you it's true!

So then to you an apocalypse would be the "Divine Author" formatting his/hers/its hard drive?

[illegal machine]

the real answer.


The universe is constantly in motion, accelerating outwards seemingly infinitly. when alll the kinetic energy in the universe has been spent, then all the mass and matter in the now non moving universe will hang motionless for a moment, then gradualy make it's way back into itself. when this happens the enourmous pressure will cause a breakdown of all matter to a subatomic level. which will then result in an enourmous mass of incredible density which radiates NO light, BUT contains alll the gravitational force and potential energy in what was the universe.

thats what happens in the end. so the beginning would consist of that same enormous non defineable mass of matter containing ALL of the atoms in the universe which is constantly compacting itself and creating more pressure, and collecting more and more potential energy. when it builds up enough it "might" explode in a BIG... ummmmm whats that word...... Boom, no.... BUST! hmmmm no

Big Bang?


I think that might be it

[Freshmilk]

So then to you an apocalypse would be the "Divine Author" formatting his/hers/its hard drive?

thats a very odd concept... it works, and makes sense, but its just plain weird to think about.

[LampShade]

the real answer.

The universe is constantly in motion, accelerating outwards seemingly infinitly. when alll the kinetic energy in the universe has been spent, then all the mass and matter in the now non moving universe will hang motionless for a moment, then gradualy make it's way back into itself. when this happens the enourmous pressure will cause a breakdown of all matter to a subatomic level. which will then result in an enourmous mass of incredible density which radiates NO light, BUT contains alll the gravitational force and potential energy in what was the universe.

thats what happens in the end. so the beginning would consist of that same enormous non defineable mass of matter containing ALL of the atoms in the universe which is constantly compacting itself and creating more pressure, and collecting more and more potential energy. when it builds up enough it "might" explode in a BIG... ummmmm whats that word...... Boom, no.... BUST! hmmmm no

Big Bang?


I think that might be it

Now that is what I agree with. The universe will grow then when it can no more it will collapse in on its self. But that makes me think... How many times has this happened and were did that energy come from? Has it always been this way and always will?

[xigency]

Another universe.

The universe is currently expanding, but at some point it won't have enough energy to keep on expanding. When the (mass x energy) levels reach a certain threshold, the universe will start to contract. When it reaches the origin of the Big Bang, the collision of everything will create a new big bang and the universe is recreated.

Actually, new evidence supports the theory that the universe's expansion is accelerating.
-= Double Post =-

Whatever is here now has always been here.
It will never go.

Matter cannot be created or destroyed, only changed.

I believe that matter can actually be converted into energy, such that certain larger elements lose small amounts of matter during the reactions that form them, and they consequently have a smaller atomic mass than the number of neutrons and protons.