What was there before the universe?

[FreePlay]

Precisely. You can't have before and after without the universe, because those concepts revolve around the time that only exists in the universe.

There wouldn't even be an infinitely small length of time, because that's still time, and that still requires the universe. There would be no time at all.

[-skelevision-]

So, you couldn't travel back in time to when the Universe begins, because that would imply there was a 'before' the universe and there was no 'before'. So as far as time is concerned, the Universe has always existed and always will exist in some form, because existence is inexorably tied up with time. I think.
So, next question, what's at the edge of the universe? Stephen Hawking said it was a 'net' of wormholes which when you reached it would transport you back to a different place in the universe. Which makes a sort of sense- in this way, the universe is infinite- no matter how far or in what direction you go, there'll always be more - it's like running off the edge of the screen and into the other edge in Mario Bros. What would happen if there was an edge to the universe? Would it be an invisible wall, or maybe there really is nothing beyond the universe, and if there is no Universe beyond the universe, then no time can exist either. So what would happen if you traveled beyond that boundary- perhaps you would enter a suspension of some sort, or cease to exist, or maybe the act of traveling off the edge of the universe would extend the fabric of space and time itself to make a 'bulge', where you're going, or even expand the universe a little bit, if you catch my drift, and you would still exist in the sense that you would still travel along with time and space, so no matter how fast you travel there will always be more Universe as the Universe would expand with you or faster than you. Am I right in saying that the Universe is expanding at the speed of light?

[FreePlay]

I believe it is, which kinda makes the whole point moot, since that means you can't reach the edge

But as for what would happen... I doubt you could go outside the universe, since that would mean you were capable of jumping from inside time to outside time... somehow.

[yoman258]

Whatever is here now has always been here.
It will never go.

Matter cannot be created or destroyed, only changed.

You would think that right? Once you get into higher studies you realize that that applies on earth sure, but what about when you go 40 billion light years a way into a black hole... Can matter be created or destroyed there??? You can't apply concepts developed on Earth to such a large topic such as the universe.


A reply to the edge of the universe, also think about what we call galaxies etc. We are in a galaxy far off is another galaxy and another and another and another and it goes on. What if we have it all wrong? What if the galaxies are the planets of the universe and the universe is just 1 galaxy of the ACTUAL Universe. We just think because this is all we can see, that it must be all or the "universe" is the biggest thing out there. But what if the Universe.

[amrcidiot]

I think, before the universe was another universe.
It's stupid to think that we're the only life in the whole universe/galaxy/everything.
Maybe somebody(some THING) created this universe; somebody from another universe. I'm not saying GOD. I'm saying, yes, aliens.
But I don't think aliens are what we believe them to be.
I think aliens are just like us, maybe they look alot different. The roswell sightings, and aliens, were def. made up, because I highly doubt that aliens have two legs, two arms, and walk the same way we do. They could have no legs, whatever.

anyway, I think that some other type of life form made the universe.
maybe it was GOD. whatever, either way, we're not the FIRST universe.
-= Double Post =-
which makes me think....what made the FIRST Universe...... makes me wanna scream random words because it's hard to imagine. maybe time loops. we make a universe in the future, and the universe makes us.... weird.... lol

[SpiderJames]

there was nothing before the universe, its always been here

[Adiuvo]

Then how does it have an age?

[PSPgamer512]

Then how does it have an age?

Well that depends if you believe in the Big Bang theory.

[slicer4ever]

instead of asking what was before why not ask what is outside of the universe and if the universe is constantly expanding doesn't it defeat the idea that matter and energy can neither be destroyed nor created

also with the universe constantly expanding at a faster and faster rate this defeats a few other ideas that talk about matter first off if the universe has to be expanding faster than light(mainly because the universe is theorized to be what 20 billion years old and yet their are stars trillions of lightyears away from us) this defeats the idea that no object/matter/energy can travel faster than light (how else do you explain particles being so far out unless their....CREATED(and we all know that isn't possible)) otherwise this would mean there are particles/matters/energy outside of the universe which allows the idea that space travel may be possible secondly well now i can't think i'll edit this when the idea comes back in my head

[Wookiee]

I've always asked this question and nobody can ever give me some type of answer. So what do you guys think? I know most of you are going to say, "Nothing". But what is nothing exactly? It can't be empty space, because that is something. So what exactly was there before the universe. I want to hear your thoughts.

God...

[FreePlay]

My genitals.

[Darth Budd]

What was there before the universe?

the jewniverse

[FreePlay]

the YouNiverse, from Google and YouTube.

[AzureBlack]

Well first off people are making the assumption that there was ever a "before" in the first place instead of perpetual existence.

Second off our human brains will never be able to fathom the universe we live in

Third off, for an interesting read, try Ray Kurzweil's "Age of Spiritual Machines", he has some interesting thoughts on these ideas

[EminentJonFrost]

there were gays
LOL

dun dun dun!

we find out that deep within our roots.. that the persecuted of today were once the norm!
what a twist!

[MexicanSnake]

I know, carrots...

[AzureBlack]

Some of you people are such morons.

1.) Those theories that we have developed on Earth are based on what we observe from the rest of the universe that we can see.

2.) The Universe is infinite, which is a concept that humans are unable to fathom, therefore they try to deny it. We are an arrogant race afterall.

3.) I read an interesting article calling into question whether blackholes can actually exist or not...lets see if I can find a link...This is somewhat what I was looking for: http://space.newscientist.com/articl...lly-exist.html

But the one that I read was pretty much as follows:

A blackhole cannot exist, because it has been theorized that time slows down the closer you get to the cingularity, so that time would stop before you even GOT to the cingularity. But apparently the blackhole eventually leaks what is called "hawking radiation", which is a paradox. How could something condense something into pure eergy and then release it if time stops before it can actually be condensed and radiated in energy form?

The answer is that it cannot, therefore it contradicts itself.

[slicer4ever]

@AzureBlack your first and third points contradict each other first you say all our theorys are based on our point of view from earth(agreed that humans know nothing) however than u use a theory from earth of how something can not exist

also as to humans being arrogant look at the evolution post below this one 100% agreed however as the universe being infinite i can not agree as like you said i deny it as i can't fathom it

[Chathurga]

Some of you people are such morons.

1.) Those theories that we have developed on Earth are based on what we observe from the rest of the universe that we can see.

2.) The Universe is infinite, which is a concept that humans are unable to fathom, therefore they try to deny it. We are an arrogant race afterall.

3.) I read an interesting article calling into question whether blackholes can actually exist or not...lets see if I can find a link...This is somewhat what I was looking for: http://space.newscientist.com/articl...lly-exist.html

But the one that I read was pretty much as follows:

A blackhole cannot exist, because it has been theorized that time slows down the closer you get to the cingularity, so that time would stop before you even GOT to the cingularity. But apparently the blackhole eventually leaks what is called "hawking radiation", which is a paradox. How could something condense something into pure eergy and then release it if time stops before it can actually be condensed and radiated in energy form?

The answer is that it cannot, therefore it contradicts itself.

...
You are a moron.

1.) Yes obviously, I can't see any powerful point there.

2.) The universe is NOT infinite as we know the universes age and there is evidence that the universe is expanding out from a point of origin so if the universe was infinitely big then that means it would have expanded at a speed greater than that of light.
That is impossible, the universe is finite.

3.) Black holes are as real as you are, they probably have more evidence for their existence too.

[Kyle0wnsYou]

tl;dr

but to answer the thread title, there is no "before" the universe.

Our universe was created due to the 'big bang'. "Before" is a property of time, and time itself was not created until the big bang. Therefore, there is no before the big bang.

[slicer4ever]

then i post to u the question of what is outside the universe? as that is what was before the universe

[EminentJonFrost]

then i post to u the question of what is outside the universe? as that is what was before the universe

hmm, interesting turning point.

i'm as stumped on this as trying to figure out what was before the universe.

[FreePlay]

Well first off people are making the assumption that there was ever a "before" in the first place instead of perpetual existence.

Second off our human brains will never be able to fathom the universe we live in

Third off, for an interesting read, try Ray Kurzweil's "Age of Spiritual Machines", he has some interesting thoughts on these ideas

The concept of an infinite universe has been thoroughly rejected by modern scientific understanding of the universe's expansion.

And there is nothing outside of the universe. There cannot be anything outside the universe, because there would be nowhere for it to exist.

2.) The Universe is infinite, which is a concept that humans are unable to fathom, therefore they try to deny it. We are an arrogant race afterall.

Like Chathurga said, if the universe were infinite, it would not have had a beginning. But we know it did. So it's finite.

3.) I read an interesting article calling into question whether blackholes can actually exist or not...lets see if I can find a link...This is somewhat what I was looking for: http://space.newscientist.com/articl...lly-exist.html

But the one that I read was pretty much as follows:

A blackhole cannot exist, because it has been theorized that time slows down the closer you get to the cingularity, so that time would stop before you even GOT to the cingularity. But apparently the blackhole eventually leaks what is called "hawking radiation", which is a paradox. How could something condense something into pure eergy and then release it if time stops before it can actually be condensed and radiated in energy form?

Sigh. Wikipedia would have answered that for you.

In physics, Hawking radiation (also known as Bekenstein-Hawking radiation) is a thermal radiation thought to be emitted by black holes due to "quantum effects". It is named after British physicist Stephen Hawking who provided the theoretical argument for its existence in 1974, and sometimes also after the Israeli physicist Jacob Bekenstein who predicted that black holes should have thermal properties. Because Hawking radiation allows black holes to lose mass, black holes which lose more matter than they gain through other means are expected to evaporate, and shrink, and ultimately vanish. Smaller 'micro' black holes are currently predicted by theory to be larger net emitters of radiation than larger black holes, and to shrink and evaporate faster.

Black holes are sites of immense gravitational attraction into which surrounding matter is drawn by gravitational forces. Classically, the gravitation is so powerful that nothing, not even radiation or light, can escape from the black hole. It is yet unknown how gravity can be incorporated into quantum mechanics, but nevertheless far from the black hole the gravitational effects can be weak enough that calculations can be reliably performed in the framework of quantum field theory in curved spacetime. Hawking showed that quantum effects allow black holes to emit exact black body radiation, which is the average thermal radiation emitted by an idealized thermal source known as a black body. The radiation is as if it is emitted by a black body of temperature which is related (inverse proportional) to the black hole mass.
Physical insight on the process may be gained by imagining that particle-antiparticle radiation is emitted from just beyond the event horizon. This radiation does not come directly from the black hole itself, but rather is a result of virtual particles being "boosted" by the black hole's gravitation into becoming real particles.
A more precise, but still much simplified view of the process is that vacuum fluctuations cause a particle-antiparticle pair to appear close to the event horizon of a black hole. One of the pair falls into the black hole whilst the other escapes. In order to preserve total energy, the particle which fell into the black hole must have had a negative energy (with respect to an observer far away from the black hole). By this process the black hole loses mass, and to an outside observer it would appear that the black hole has just emitted a particle.

[slicer4ever]

@freeplay exactly that is what was before the universe...nothing of course it is nearly impossible to imagine nothing

[AzureBlack]

Ooooor we could just go with the idea of the big bang and big crunch theory, which just means that its an endless cycle of the universe restarting over and over again, but in my opinion it is just pointless to waste time on, since we will never understand anyways...so why bother?

[Realn0whereman]

my uneducated opinion is this: before the big bang, there was just space. but before space there was an unimaginable undescribably void. the void of voids. not even empty. emptier than empty. so empty that there isnt anything to hold the emptiness. and if you think about it too much your face explodes into candies.

[luigiman83]

I believe God created the universe and everything in it. There was nothing before the universe.

[slicer4ever]

then how was their a god?

[Realn0whereman]

then how was their a god?

there was chuck norris.


lawlz. this is a science forum. no room for god

[jshep2k5]

there was chuck norris.


lawlz. this is a science forum. no room for god

There is always room for discussion of God. Creationism is a form of a science, not an exact science, but a science nonetheless based soley on faith. I don't see how you can tell someone there is no room for something after making a comment about Chuch Norris. At any rate, Creationism is the only thing that really makes sense. I've read in places about the big bang theory that the universe originated from a single point of highly concentrated energy that expanded and expanded, and once it reaches a certain point or threshold as one of the posters from the beginning of the thread put, and collapses and starts all over. My question to you, which can't be rationally answered, is where did this point of energy come from? Creationism answers this question, therefore it has it's place here.