Professional looking homebrew games??

[positron]

hi,

I am not criticizing homebrew, I know each creation is one effort. However I notice a stark difference between homebrew games and PSP official. Usually homebres look like Nintendo 8-bit console games. I am not criticizing just wonder what is preventing a homebrew games look like Killzone, God of War or Final Fantasy if we already have access to psp's full hardware? There are a plethora of open source 3D modeling such as Blender. Is not possible to use those?

thanks

[Fzero]

I know of 2 Great 3D games try Space escape and No gravity

[yaustar]

Originally Posted by positron

hi,

I am not criticizing homebrew, I know each creation is one effort. However I notice a stark difference between homebrew games and PSP official. Usually homebres look like Nintendo 8-bit console games. I am not criticizing just wonder what is preventing a homebrew games look like Killzone, God of War or Final Fantasy if we already have access to psp's full hardware? There are a plethora of open source 3D modeling such as Blender. Is not possible to use those?

thanks

Give me a budget equal to professional games, and I give you a homebrew equal to the same 'quality' as commercial.
-= Double Post =-
Basically it comes down to money, time and people. Most homebrew projects don't have much in the way of these three main factors.

[Fzero]

Exactly , Imagine how good homebrew would be if every homebrew project had millions of dollars to spend . The homebrew developers do all of this in there own time not in an office block with a team of 100 people

[PSPJunkie_]

We work for free?

[Fzero]

A lot of homebrew devs do

[Joel Van]

I believe we work for eachother and ourselves.

[theketchupman]

Originally Posted by Joel Van

I believe we work for eachother and ourselves.

totally agree.

Also, take a look to Vertex Racing and no gravity, and tell us then if a nintendo can create these graph'

[-chw42-]

PSPRevolution is the best homebrew game to come out so far, If you ask me that game's pretty professional....kinda

[yaustar]

Re-read the first post. I misunderstood completely. It seems that OP was referring to the graphical look and not the quality.

Programmers are not usually artists as well, this means they use 'programmer art' most of the time.

Artists are not usually programmers, this means that they can't actually develop the game.

Programmers that randomly team up with artists on the Internet without any criteria or planning usually fail (as we have seen many times).

The ones that work out are the games mentioned here.

In there end, it still comes down to money, time and people. Most homebrew projects don't have much in the way of these three main factors.

[MaTiAz]

Originally Posted by theketchupman

Also, take a look to Vertex Racing and no gravity, and tell us then if a nintendo can create these graph'

Uh, what's a nintendo? And what is that sentence supposed to mean anyway?

[Mister Chief]

A nintendo can't make good graph?

O rly?

[marlon_ibz]

A nintendo is a console,like nintendo ds or nintendo 64 xD and the sentence means that the vertex racing game has better graphics than nintendo games hehe

[yaustar]

He means the NES 8-bit console.

[positron]

Originally Posted by yaustar

Re-read the first post. I misunderstood completely. It seems that OP was referring to the graphical look and not the quality.

Programmers are not usually artists as well, this means they use 'programmer art' most of the time.

Artists are not usually programmers, this means that they can't actually develop the game.

Programmers that randomly team up with artists on the Internet without any criteria or planning usually fail (as we have seen many times).

The ones that work out are the games mentioned here.

In there end, it still comes down to money, time and people. Most homebrew projects don't have much in the way of these three main factors.

Interesting, so a game is not created entirely by coders, otherwise a collaborative work with persons skilled in different areas. Ok I see. But still there are open source games that look "cool" and with quality of play, Eternal Lands, there is one WoW type, Racer, Freeciv, etc. Specially Racer, it is mindblowing.

But anyways the bottom line is tha no one is bothering yet in making a collaborative project for the PSP. Too bad given the fact that Homebrew can run 333MHz the games would be better looking than official PSP.

[yaustar]

Originally Posted by positron

Interesting, so a game is not created entirely by coders, otherwise a collaborative work with persons skilled in different areas. Ok I see.

...
*blinks*

But still there are open source games that look "cool" and with quality of play, Eternal Lands, there is one WoW type, Racer, Freeciv, etc. Specially Racer, it is mindblowing.

Again, they are done by teams of artists, sound engineers and programmers. The fact that some of them are open source means that anyone can get the source code and improve/mod it.

But anyways the bottom line is tha no one is bothering yet in making a collaborative project for the PSP. Too bad given the fact that Homebrew can run 333MHz the games would be better looking than official PSP.

No one is bothering that you can see. It doesn't mean that it isn't happening behind the public eye.

[BlackShark]

I am very shocked that Dungeons 3D hasn't been mentioned yet, yall should be ashamed!

[eldiablov]

i concur.

[crazychris890]

ummm my favorite homebrew graphics:
IRshell (beautiful themes)
NoGravity ( OMFG totally amazing i have no idea how they made this)
FileAssistant ( easy clean GUI)
Bookr (nice simple black and white GUI)

EDIT

I agree PSPrevolution is also quite professionally done. ive been waiting for DDR on PSP

[Raphael]

I tell you something: Try to get a group of 4-5 people with different skills (and possibly attitudes/free times/timezones/likings/coding styles/... list goes on) and manage them to work together in a productive environment without earning one cent for it. It may sound easy, but inventing relativity theory was a lot easier for sure (</some exaggeration>).

And as yaustar said, just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Producing high quality games that are close to commercial titles, take an awful lot of time. Think about how a team of dozens of professionally managed and paid programmers/artists need up to a couple of years to produce such games, and interpolate that to the time needed for a team of 1-5 hobbyists.

[positron]

Originally Posted by Raphael

I tell you something: Try to get a group of 4-5 people with different skills (and possibly attitudes/free times/timezones/likings/coding styles/... list goes on) and manage them to work together in a productive environment without earning one cent for it. It may sound easy, but inventing relativity theory was a lot easier for sure (</some exaggeration>).

And as yaustar said, just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Producing high quality games that are close to commercial titles, take an awful lot of time. Think about how a team of dozens of professionally managed and paid programmers/artists need up to a couple of years to produce such games, and interpolate that to the time needed for a team of 1-5 hobbyists.

one word: SVN

[yaustar]

Originally Posted by positron

one word: SVN

What do you think we are using? Most of us are using a combination of software for bug reports, documentation, source control and communication. I could literally run an entire suite of software for a software project off the top of my head.

The lack of 'real world' interaction really hinders discussions and planning during the early and late stages of the project where the team really needs to be in the same room.

Communicating effectively over the Internet is quite frankly a pain the ass which is a major reason why so many projects fail. The ones that succeed are usually the ones that have the founders in the same area of the world with real world communication.

[pspballer07]

Pro game creators have an organized team that can meet up person to person which can mean a lot.

[Raphael]

Originally Posted by positron

one word: SVN

That shows that you never really used such a system to an extent. It helps a lot in managing the code merging and versioning, but that's only a very small amount of the problems involved with such a project. You need to manage timeplans and milestones, track tickets (bugs/enhancements/todos), specify coding guide lines, manage team meetings for discussions and decissions, etc. And that's only the obvious things, not talking about the sociological and psychological aspects like motivation.

[yaustar]

Originally Posted by Raphael

That shows that you never really used such a system to an extent. It helps a lot in managing the code merging and versioning, but that's only a very small amount of the problems involved with such a project. You need to manage timeplans and milestones, track tickets (bugs/enhancements/todos), specify coding guide lines, manage team meetings for discussions and decissions, etc. And that's only the obvious things, not talking about the sociological and psychological aspects like motivation.

To illustrate some of those points:
http://parabellumgames.no-ip.org/dox...annotated.html
http://parabellumgames.no-ip.org/fly...=all&project=3

Here is an example of an abandoned old project to show what we are actually using to manage our projects.
-= Double Post =-
On a side note, it is threads like these that make me wonder if we should setup an Underground Programmers Forum based on an invite only system so we can get away from these kind of threads and actually concentrate on development :/

[slicer4ever]

i agree with everything yauster has been saying professional games take at least a couple years before they release there games most games around here have been made in the timespan of a few months with the exception of a few

also like yauster said u can't get a team of 4-5 online at the same time for the following reasons:
A. different time zone
B. many homebrewers are in school
C. organizing every1 to get on at the same time
D. people actually remembering to meet

you need real world not virtual world
and still a team of 4-5 is nothing compared what professionals have, 20-25-100 sometimes making a game

[SG57]

Personally, I find that there are few good 3d homebrew games because:

• Most developers are 'amateurs' when it comes to experience/skill
• Most developers aren't willing to write their own engine (time wise)
• Most developers that fit the above criteria can't find a 3D render engine for the PSP
• Most developers who do find a 3D render engine, don't have the time to become well informed on the API

Just what i think.

[KleptoOne]

Actually, if you think about it, its hard to create a truely original game nowadays. I've been gaming since the day's of intellivision, and I can't even begin to think of a truely original concept. Hell, my Tenacious D game plays so much like River City Ransom it sickens me. People make these games for the same reason that "you tubers" make movies, because they are contributing to something that they have loved for a long time, even if it's in a small way.

Also, it seems to me that the OP is taking part in one of the oldest and most time honored of traditions... Looking a gift horse in the mouth.

[GuitarGod1134]

Ya time is the most important issue, then money. I guarantee everyone on these forums are capable of creating a really good 3d homebrew game but no one (or very few) are willing to spend time out of thier day to learn the material required. If you see what really good homebrew is out its mainly made by people who are programmers in the real world so its like being a cook and cooking for your self. Not to mention world of warcraft takes time out of everyones day.

[crazychris890]

not for me maplestory and school does