[PRE-PRODUCTION] - Shadow of the Creator: Chaos

[phantoma]

I came here almost a year ago looking for a programmer to help me create a game for the psp. It was called Edward Nigma: Fantastic Fanboy. Now that I'm nearly at the end of completing that game. I've come to recruit the best of the best from the PSP HOMEBREW development scene. THIS MAY BE THE GREATEST HOMEBREW PROJECT EVER TAKEN and also one that can be completed within a matter of months.

What project may you be asking this will be? Well I would need a coder who is well versed in C/C++ and the PSP SDK. Some who can code 2d graphics provide mainly by myself.

The project is a 2d fighter based on a mix of SMASH BROTHERS BRAWL and MUGEN. I called it Shadow of the Creator, most of the code is already done, but requires heavy tweaking. Both in the GUI and the battle system. Features would need to be added such as adhoc support and even minor infrastructure support.

The project may be considered to be in early beta testing phase but its anything but presentable. If everything is done correctly then this game will revolutionize the way Homebrew is presented.

The fighting system is already made but is not in par with the now "updated" BRAWL system.

For development purpose I will not release more details on the game. I would have added concept stills, but it would appear that this site doesn't allow for "IMG" postings, at least not for the moment...

The requirements are the following:
+ Experienced coder with PSPSDK
+ Experience with C/C++
+ Ability to modify source code and edit accordingly.
+ Must be trustworthy and dependable
+ Dedication to the project is a must!

If you wish to see my group's current project(s) you may look at our blog;
http://phantomfactory.blogspot.com

PM or reply to this thread if you feel that you are interested or have any questions.

Thank you for your time.

[yaustar]

Do you have anything (in game screen shots, videos, source code) that you can show publically to show the current progress? At the moment, all we have is your word.

How many other developers do you have on the team at the moment (this includes all disciplines, artists, sound engineers, programmers, QA etc).

[PS2MAN]

This has already been done and its called SmashGPSP, is around 4 years old and hasnt been updated for 2 years, however the source code was released.

You mite want to use and update the said code

[Xsjado7]

What do you mean already done? SmashGPSP is a 2D fighter but its not this fighter

[phantoma]

Wow...

I never intended this to be on the front page of site but then again, I guess they must be short on stories.

As to the comments made earlier. Yes, this would be based on SMASHPSP a game released by matkeupon. The source code has been released but again the last version was in 2006. This would a heavy mod only leaving the game engine untouched and even that may be updated. This game is in pre-production which is anything but done, as I stated before this playable but not presentable. I am currently at process of forming a new team, I am currently apart of Team Zero, a sub division of Phantom Factory, a homebrew development house. We are in the process of finishing our first game, Edward Nigma: Fantastic Fanboy. Ofcourse, once you join you would be better informed as to our situation.

I will be doing the GUI graphics and we'd be using "free" music. Fighter sprites are widely available, and will be used for this game. I can edit them and present them to a programmer who would program their moves, same can be said for the GUI. I have another programmer but he is currently busy with other projects and is only experienced in LUA.

You have to understand that homebrew is something very small, like the NES/SNES days when it would be two guys in their garage. Most of the material we use would be share/freeware. So normally it would be, one guy creates an app or a game and he releases updates bi-monthly or even tri-monthly. My question is why doesn't anyone join forces and becomes an independent development house? If you were to get 2 or 3 developers together and each focused on their forte then you would be able to roll out a game in no time. Not to mention that game would be in the highest quality, since no one is stretching their talents into other areas.

Again, if you are interested in this title please PM me or reply to this thread.
For those who want images...

These are all conceptual stills and are only to give an ideal of what the game may look like.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91...l/be285054.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91...r/7624a577.jpg
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y91...t=94a3a6bb.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91...l/6abdbd27.png
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91...r/465645b5.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91...r/5c73ebea.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91...r/9ba9ea14.jpg

[jantunes]

I love those pictures. I really do.

[Moose]

That looks absolutely amazing. The second to last picture with King Dedede is lovely.

[Insert_Witty_Name]

Artwork looks pretty good.

You're advertising in the wrong place however - there are very very few people who frequent these boards that have the coding skill to do what you ask.

Just a warning, but be careful who you choose for the job.

[borgqueenx]

i cant program in C, but i have some songs my team once made for me and you are free to use it if you want, if you credit my team and my music composers.

looks like you dont need someone for images, you rule at it!

and if you need 3d models, i can also help you with that

[spike021]

But this is really just turning into a Super Smash Bros clone though right?

[phantoma]

Originally Posted by Insert_Witty_Name

Artwork looks pretty good.

You're advertising in the wrong place however - there are very very few people who frequent these boards that have the coding skill to do what you ask.

Just a warning, but be careful who you choose for the job.

I found a good developer in LUA here so I thought I might try out my luck again. Though I need a programmer in C++, one capable enough to mod SMASHGPSP enough to make it into Shadow of the Creator. Which would be a dedicated port focusing on the all the PSP's strength. Hell, maybe in the future we may port it to other systems(DS anyone?).

I just know this place is full a passionate people who love the psp and wish to bring new and exciting things to it.

Look if you think I should be looking some where else then please point me in the right direction.

[borgqueenx]

not interested in my help?
and cant you do C++ ? why need more people?

[yaustar]

Gah! Just looking through the source code for SmashGPSP, and it is in French including the variable names. (And it is in C not C++)

[Mraellis]

pictures from brawl and a bit of editing :S wow so cool :P

[yaustar]

I am hugely tempted by this if it didn't infringe on IP or copyright issues (due to issues regarding company association). In particular, the frontend design and flow of Brawl. Change that and I think on it.

[phantoma]

Well its nothing more than a parody of Smash or at the very least a an ad honorum. SmashGP was made in 2004 and I can see no action was taken. Its more of a clone of MUGEN, since it lets you add your own characters/stages. The language was brought to my attention before hand by one of my programers in my team, I thought that problem could be corrected in babelfish.

I would do it myself but I'm using a low end mac and as you can see the graphical aspect is heavy as it is. If I were to do it all on my own as the original was made it wouldn't look to good.

GUI is hardy anything to get all up an arms about, since it doesn't event look that much to the SMASH GUI, the formation and names are different. The game itself is free so its shareware.

This is why I stated that if you feel interest PM me, that way you can remain to have anonymity.

This project is not easy but the potential is too great to ignore. The only project that I can remember being similar is SHUGENDO, which is a MUGEN clone(one that I designed the logo for). But its might never be done since its still in the PC beta stage.

[yaustar]

Originally Posted by phantoma

Well its nothing more than a parody of Smash or at the very least a an ad honorum. SmashGP was made in 2004 and I can see no action was taken.

I won't do it out of principle and also because I work for a major games company which increase complications. User created character sets I can get away with but not something like what you have shown in the concepts.

GUI is hardy anything to get all up an arms about, since it doesn't event look that much to the SMASH GUI, the formation and names are different. The game itself is free so its shareware.

Doesn't matter if it is freeware, shareware, open-source, etc, it looks far too much like the Brawl interface to ignore. The fact you are going to include the same items doesn't help.

The language was brought to my attention before hand by one of my programers in my team, I thought that problem could be corrected in babelfish.

Might do for the comments but for variable and function names where the names are mangled and worse, abbreviated, it will be difficult for a translator to deal with code.

How many other programmers do you have on the team currently?

[phantoma]

Again this is in the process of forming a team to go forth with the project.

I won't do it out of principle and also because I work for a major games company which increase complications. User created character sets I can get away with but not something like what you have shown in the concepts.

I can understand your worries and their completely understandable. I've looked into the legal defensive side of this and its completely defendable, as to the Fair Use defense.

This is intended to work as a parody of the project in the way of stating that SMASH is not really a good game but that fact that you have nostalgic characters increases the value and thus the game play. This game does not sell gameplay but rather Nostalgia(again this is my view, I know SMASH is a good game). So we create a game that make a completely parody of the idea of "Nostalgic Gameplay" and allows the user to put whatever Character they wish. To show that it can be as equally as popular.

Doesn't matter if it is freeware, shareware, open-source, etc, it looks far too much like the Brawl interface to ignore. The fact you are going to include the same items doesn't help.

LOL. Those aren't ingame shot but rather conceptualized stills of what the game may look like. I wish it have several items but not an exact copy. Things can still be changed. I just thought that these images my be more in tune with the ultimate feel of the game.

http://www.spriters-resource.com/nin...t/zinsamus.gif

For example, take this into account. Here is a sprite sheet for samus a character own by nintendo. But the art is independent and created by non-nintendo artist. Does that make the work Nintendo's? No. But does make the character his? No, that ain't the case either. Its somewhere in the middle. Where the character is nintendo's but the sprite is from the individual artist.
Like I stated before hand, on of the games main feature is the ability for the gamer to customized his/her own experience. Add the characters they want and the levels they want. Those said characters can be from either whatever game company/anime/other media they want. I never said this project was going to be easy but that the results from the final product may be worth it.



To BorgQueenX: if interested plz PM.

[borgqueenx]

you should pm some developers and ask if they want to help. i think thats faster then requesting.

[phantoma]

I have no idea who is more experienced or who is on the up and up. If they come here then it shows interest which would be a hint to the amount of dedication they might have to the project.

In all honesty I just want to mod and upgrade SMASHGPSP to be full featured and be capable to take advantage of all the features of the PSP. I dont think its so much of a ethical problem since in the end we're talking about a game that has be out for over 2 years. But is so rudimentary that its been completely forgotten on the psp.

If anyone feels interest in this project PM and feel that you can take up the task of development. Then please PM me. Until so I dont want to reveal more on gameplay and design. I'll end it with this. The game will share some features from SSBB the main focus of this game is customizability.

[jantunes]

Don't care about copyright infrigements. This is just a homebrew game. If there's any problem with Nintendo, wich I don't believe there's going to be, they're going to contact you saying what you're infringing and you can then change it.

btw, Neoflash has some good coders. Maybe there's some interest over there.

[yaustar]

Originally Posted by phantoma

I can understand your worries and their completely understandable. I've looked into the legal defensive side of this and its completely defendable, as to the Fair Use defense.

From your link:

To justify the use as fair, one must demonstrate how it either advances knowledge or the progress of the arts through the addition of something new.

Fundamentally, this is a clone and not a parody so it already screws with my principles to suggest or represent otherwise. If that wasn't enough, try arguing 'fair use' with two legal departments of major companies. Admittedly, this is the worst case scenario but it is something directly linked to my career.

If you change the combat design and interface so it looks and plays less of a clone and more original then Smash Bros, then I will be more inclined to join because anything user created is fair game against the user and not authors of the engine.

For example, take this into account. Here is a sprite sheet for samus a character own by nintendo. But the art is independent and created by non-nintendo artist. Does that make the work Nintendo's? No. But does make the character his? No, that ain't the case either. Its somewhere in the middle. Where the character is nintendo's but the sprite is from the individual artist.

The IP is Nintendo's. If the artist is using it without permission of the author of the IP, Nintendo can sue the artist.

As for my skills and previous projects, I have a Blog and Portfolio link in my signature.

To re-iterate, if you make the core game mechanics more original then I am up for joining the project and we can go from there. Other factors such as the current team's skills and experience will affect the decision but will can deal with that if there is a later.

Off topic: This sounds similar to what you are trying to achieve with a more traditional fighting system: http://kotaku.com/355703/card-sagas-...it-console-era and yes, legal would have a field day with it if they feel inclined to protect their IP.

[_-Tiger-_]

If i had started learning C i would have helped, but seeing as i havent started learning it i cant :/ But good luck, hopefully it gets released, and is as popular as Brawl is on the Wii.

[phantoma]

Originally Posted by yaustar

The IP is Nintendo's. If the artist is using it without permission of the author of the IP, Nintendo can sue the artist.

To re-iterate, if you make the core game mechanics more original then I am up for joining the project and we can go from there. Other factors such as the current team's skills and experience will affect the decision but will can deal with that if there is a later.

Off topic: This sounds similar to what you are trying to achieve with a more traditional fighting system: http://kotaku.com/355703/card-sagas-...it-console-era and yes, legal would have a field day with it if they feel inclined to protect their IP.

Well, as I stated before. This is based off Smash GPSP which so even if there was a legal problem it would be taken with the original creator. The argument of nintendo sueing an artist for painting a picture is completely ridiculous, to think that some company can sue someone for FAN ART. No one is making a Super Mario Clone or even a Smash Clone. The battle system would work differently because something are not easy to recreate on a 2d field. They couldn't even sue over the concept since another clone was created with Onimusha Characters for the PS2. The characters are not even completely Nintendo cause the user would download the characters they wanted whether they be Nintendo or Capcom or Namco. Its basically an over-simplified version of MUGEN.

The GUI is completely made by myself, I made it from scratch. The buttons look similar in style but it not even a copy. Nothing is a copy, everything is user created. The only thing borrowed is characters and those are user provided.

http://smashgp.psparchive.de/

The original is in fact more of a clone than the product I'm providing. Which is a portable customizable fighter. Hell, the name is not even the same. Nintendo suing me for creating a fighter based on their character is like Marvel suing me for creating Spiderman on Smackdown vs Raw. Truth is that no game company has placed any kind of legal action against MUGEN

If you want to be apart of this project then fine, join up. But to make these jumps in conclusion on something that isn't even done is completely counter productive.

Even the example you have placed is ahead of this project, yet no game company has sent any kind of legal letter. The fact is that this game is a fan service and does more to provide publicity than hurt the game company. Truth is that this is FAN ART, if you want we could place the same system MUGEN uses which is a time release system for copyrighted material.

Look into it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.G.E.N#Legality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanart

If you still interested then PM.

While you have some points, the game itself isn't even done yet. Potential is there to change but I think you might be exaggerating the situation far more than it actually is. Take a look at what we have so far and then make your choice.

[yaustar]

Originally Posted by phantoma

The argument of nintendo sueing an artist for painting a picture is completely ridiculous, to think that some company can sue someone for FAN ART.

They can, whether they will is another story. IP law is not great fun because it is such a gray area.

E.g: http://www.opcoder.com/projects/chrono/

No one is making a Super Mario Clone or even a Smash Clone. The battle system would work differently because something are not easy to recreate on a 2d field.

Smash is played in 2D. They are only using 3D models.

They couldn't even sue over the concept since another clone was created with Onimusha Characters for the PS2.

It isn't a clone as I suspect it doesn't play the same.

The GUI is completely made by myself, I made it from scratch. The buttons look similar in style but it not even a copy. Nothing is a copy, everything is user created. The only thing borrowed is characters and those are user provided.

As long as you can make it look and play different enough to a Smash game then I am up for it. However, you need to prove this which your concept pictures don't 'do.

Nintendo suing me for creating a fighter based on their character is like Marvel suing me for creating Spiderman on Smackdown vs Raw. Truth is that no game company has placed any kind of legal action against MUGEN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of...Suit_by_Marvel
A company actually suing straight off the bat is unlikely, a Cease and Desist will be first to arrive if anything.

If you want to be apart of this project then fine, join up. But to make these jumps in conclusion on something that isn't even done is completely counter productive.

This is all based on you have said for the concept and the images you have shown. Prove otherwise and I am up for joining.

Even the example you have placed is ahead of this project, yet no game company has sent any kind of legal letter. The fact is that this game is a fan service and does more to provide publicity than hurt the game company.

Yet. It depends how protective they are of their IP.

While you have some points, the game itself isn't even done yet. Potential is there to change but I think you might be exaggerating the situation far more than it actually is. Take a look at what we have so far and then make your choice.

Yes, I am talking about the worse case scenario based on what I have seen in this thread.

I am not saying "Nintendo will sue your asses for sure, stop making it!", I am saying that I am up for joining if the whole game looks and plays differently from Smash and you can prove it either via a demo or design document.

[dethklok]

hey phantoma do you have a beta or anything that can go on the psp right now?

[Xsjado7]

Nah, this is just concept art

[phantoma]

Truth be told it is. This is why its in pre-production, to develop the game further and establish something interesting yet original. Demand is there, but whether the will is there to create it. Well, that is unknown as of now.

[yaustar]

What is the current state of the game and team?

I.E:
How many team members do you have?
How many in each discipline?
How much of the design document is done?

Etc.

[phantoma]

Members are yet to formed, I'm in the process of forming a group. I have another programmer but he is only experienced in LUA and in another project.

Final Design isn't even final, everything is still in the planning stage.

Once a team is formed we can move to final design. If possible I expect to have a 4 person team at most.

1) Graphic Designer
2) Programmer
3) Music Producer
4) 3d designer(if lucky)

But since this is the homebrew scene, I wouldn't be surprised if this ended up a 2 man team.