I'm concerned about Lua Player and it's limits...

[SG57]

Hi...

I'm developing an FMA beat em' up, along with the help of others in departments such as GFX and BETAtesting.... As of now, all the mechanics for any great beat em up are done (gravity, friction, jumping, music, SFX, platforms, Hud (with health, experience and raw material for transmutations), etc.) and recently I fixed alot of bugs that have got me to a point where I can implement enemies and Ai... Well, as of now its running at a smooth playable framerate on the PSP (unencrpyted if that makes some difference towards efficiency) and I finished some enemy sprites and there animations, about to implement them. Im concerned that after I do this and the first 'level' is complete, I may run out of 'PSP resources' (as in stack space, possible RAM overflow of some sort)... Ive been doing some meory management lately where Im unloading unneeded things and unwrapping loops. Oh and for the HUd, i made fixed amounts at which the bars will be at, thus taking around 980 loops per bar out of the picture, that improved gameplay a lot.

So basically, should I be worried about Lua Player's limits? I have a feeling all the optimization techniques I know of will onlky get me so far... I know C would definatly take a load off the cpu and a megabyte or two out of RAM, but being PSPless itd really make making this game pointless if I cant play it... Oh and Ive been trying to look at a LUA game that putsa load on Lu aPlayer as well and Linken's Quest is the only thing that comes to midn that is relatively close to what Im kindof doing... And that turned out alright, righjt?

[WraithLeader]

For what you're doing, Lua should be able to handle it alright.

The advantage C would have in your case is that you would end up with a smoother, faster running game, but that doesn't seem to be your problem. As long as you're managing resources correctly, I can't really see where you could go wrong. As you said, making sure you don't have things unneeded loaded (like the sprites for a fighter who is not in the current fight, ect.) or that you aren't using inefficent code (improper use of tables, especially 3d, is something to watch out for, though I'm not sure if it would be that much of a drag on the PSP).

SO in conclusion, you shouldn't really need C unless you're going on a quest for a rather game with a large volume of resources needed like an RPG.

[SG57]

Yes, Im globally declaring variables, then later initializing only what is needed. As for unloading, ever part/level change, I unload everything besides gameplay music, background, the HUD and its gadgets and ofcourse the main player. Oha nd just to be sure, to unload something you simply set the variable to 'nil' (so i was told), except for in the special exceptions where there are routines needed to be done first...
-= Double Post =-
OMG...

I just realized HOW my game hasnt been being limited as i thought... Not only have I dont an awesome job with managing my resources correctly, turns out each set of sprites is 40.6 kb of memory total... That explains how Linken's Quest worked so well, there set of sprites were probably 20.3 kb each...

well, that takes a load off my mind... I wont have to worry til around level 4-5...

[Grimfate126]

also, anim lib 4 is coming tommorow, with sprite sheet support, and that should help.

[SG57]

GrimFate - Im using the first one... Where area the other 2? Do they support the unloading of an animation and whatnot? cause right now I cant unload the enemy if i do not need him after i already loaded him...

[Grimfate126]

Originally Posted by SG57

GrimFate - Im using the first one... Where area the other 2? Do they support the unloading of an animation and whatnot? cause right now I cant unload the enemy if i do not need him after i already loaded him...

?? youre using anim lib v1?? woah! search animlib 3.5, it uses OOP, and supports unloading. also, 2morrow, i will release v4, which will support all sprite sheets.

[SG57]

Can I get an early vesrion? I have a good 8 hours of coding... In thattime, i can make the sprites into a sheet per each, and itd help alot...

And ya i was using Anim lib 1 lol... It worked fine, but a tad too much work (create array, create timer, create counter, blit, etc.) I have animlib 3 right now... theres a 3.5?

[Grimfate126]

Originally Posted by SG57

Can I get an early vesrion? I have a good 8 hours of coding... In thattime, i can make the sprites into a sheet per each, and itd help alot...

And ya i was using Anim lib 1 lol... It worked fine, but a tad too much work (create array, create timer, create counter, blit, etc.) I have animlib 3 right now... theres a 3.5?

get 3.5. youll need it for better performance. dont worry, wait till 2morrow. take a break or something.

[SG57]

well, will it be completely re-created like Anim lib 1 is to 3.5? I went from AnimLoad ato blah = ANIM.new(...)... so im completely re doing the programmed animations. Will it be a big change like that?

[xploren]

I don't think so, SG57. I think it'll be the same program technique... just my thought.

[Grimfate126]

Originally Posted by SG57

well, will it be completely re-created like Anim lib 1 is to 3.5? I went from AnimLoad ato blah = ANIM.new(...)... so im completely re doing the programmed animations. Will it be a big change like that?

no. itll be the same. oop is the best. efficient too.

[SG57]

Ok, so I can get it all working with 3.5 and when 4 comes out, minor changes for the sprite sheet. Sounds good.

[alatnet]

Well, if you want a way to efficiently manage image resources, you can use my animation class/library.
It's extreamly easy to use, and saves a ton of resources when using it.
The drawback is that you have to have a sprite sheet that is uniformly formatted (as in each sprite in an image takes up the same space).
I only think of that a a minor drawback, but it make is very effiecent because it only loads that one sprite sheet and sets up redirections to that image if attempting to reload it.

[SG57]

Well, I just completely re-wrote my gameplay to use the AnimLib 3.5... Runs at same speed or clsoe to it i think... I cant really tell right now, than again I do have my entire enemy animations loaded but not displayed. I also added hte Alchemy menu to the select button. all works just dandy as it did before, but saves some lines of code... Oh and I fixed the game over screen so it scrolls by game over in big cool font randomly colored... Ahh, im ranting on my progress again... Stil lgot the enemy Ai to do *sobs*

Anywho.. GrimFate - Ill be looking forward to tomorrows release... And some re-working of my sprites and code, but itll all be worth it... Oh and GrimFate - When I try to free my opening sequence animation of 10 screens, it crashes saying animLib, 48, for loop requires a maximum number or something of the sort, and upon investigation...

for f=0,self.maxFrames do

is line 48. Why would self.maxFrames not be declared or hold my max number of frames? (10)? Im going to look more into it right now...

EDIT

GrimFate!!!! You dirty rotten non-holy unforgiveable non-error proofing bast3rd... Lemme refresh your memory...

local c = setmetatable(
	{
		interval = 0,
		currentFrame = 1,
		maxFrame = frames,
		loops = 1,
		frame = {},
		timer = Timer.new(),
	},
    	{
     		__index = ANIM
    	}
)

Your metatable, no?
Your freeing function...

function ANIM:free()
	local f
	
	for f = 1, self.maxFrames do
		self.frame[f] = nil
	end
	
	collectgarbage()
end

Thats a novice mistake GrimFate, come on now... But I forgive you, you weird, silly, funny, awkward, gullible, piece of oh so loveable glass of eggnog... But your my weird, silly, funny, awkward, gullible, piece of oh so loveable glass of eggnog... and no one elses... hmmmm......

P.S. Might want to double check v4 for it... *No need to credit* *eyes twinkling*

[Grimfate126]

Originally Posted by SG57

Well, I just completely re-wrote my gameplay to use the AnimLib 3.5... Runs at same speed or clsoe to it i think... I cant really tell right now, than again I do have my entire enemy animations loaded but not displayed. I also added hte Alchemy menu to the select button. all works just dandy as it did before, but saves some lines of code... Oh and I fixed the game over screen so it scrolls by game over in big cool font randomly colored... Ahh, im ranting on my progress again... Stil lgot the enemy Ai to do *sobs*

Anywho.. GrimFate - Ill be looking forward to tomorrows release... And some re-working of my sprites and code, but itll all be worth it... Oh and GrimFate - When I try to free my opening sequence animation of 10 screens, it crashes saying animLib, 48, for loop requires a maximum number or something of the sort, and upon investigation...

for f=0,self.maxFrames do

is line 48. Why would self.maxFrames not be declared or hold my max number of frames? (10)? Im going to look more into it right now...

EDIT

GrimFate!!!! You dirty rotten non-holy unforgiveable non-error proofing bast3rd... Lemme refresh your memory...

local c = setmetatable(
	{
		interval = 0,
		currentFrame = 1,
		maxFrame = frames,
		loops = 1,
		frame = {},
		timer = Timer.new(),
	},
    	{
     		__index = ANIM
    	}
)

Your metatable, no?
Your freeing function...

function ANIM:free()
	local f
	
	for f = 1, self.maxFrames do
		self.frame[f] = nil
	end
	
	collectgarbage()
end

Thats a novice mistake GrimFate, come on now... But I forgive you, you weird, silly, funny, awkward, gullible, piece of oh so loveable glass of eggnog... But your my weird, silly, funny, awkward, gullible, piece of oh so loveable glass of eggnog... and no one elses... hmmmm......

P.S. Might want to double check v4 for it... *No need to credit* *eyes twinkling*

umm, weird, that isnt in my lib. whoops. sry, ill fix it.

[BlackShark]

well, i cant wait to see it and i also cant wait for animLib 4 , what improvements does it have? (doesn't really matter, ill find out tommarow any way) but ya, good progress dude

[the undead]

also to save space you can use the garbage collector in lua

[alatnet]

I still think that my animated sprite class/library is more efficient and less likely to have noob errors in it....

[the undead]

Originally Posted by alatnet

I still think that my animated sprite class/library is more efficient and less likely to have noob errors in it....

Thats a little harsh......

[xploren]

Originally Posted by the undead

Thats a little harsh......

Doesn't seem to me... *heh heh...* *eyes twinkle*

[alatnet]

Originally Posted by the undead

Thats a little harsh......

I meant big errors that noobs cant figure out but a pro can. My class/library may have some small errors that noobs may never be able to solve but may give pros a run for their money, so to speak.

[SG57]

Well, Im not the one to sit around and wait for a bug to be fixed (Expophase knows this in a sense) so I dug into the lib and found a simple mistake that was causing my game problems... But its in the past now.... I dunno whose Ill use, right now Im trying GrimFates, however I must put my sprites back into there own little sheet to save space ill be needing later on...

P.S. alatnet - by 'noobs cant figure out but a pro can', was that referring to me? If so, that means alot to me, Ive changed and am not so ****y as I was back when the scene was really jumping (so to speak) so Im not one to call myself an intermediate programmer, but someone else saying it makes me feel good...

[slicer4ever]

......................... ......................... ...................
when the scene was jumping the good old days but now this place is mostly wips that fade into the darkness but idk it seems like the scene is coming back=-) all with custom fw and some good game releases(drug lord/*******/snakesp/etc)

[SG57]

lol ya. But seriosuly, the good old days were when emulators for the PSP were being released, and ones that no others were made, as of now there arent alot of SNES emulators, as well as NES and MAME.

[a_noob]

SG57 why are you reverting back to lua? Why not learn SDL or OpenGL and make a multi platform game? Then you could also port it to the psp. Also why dont you save up for a new psp?

PS what actually happened to yours?

[slicer4ever]

yea true but still practically every emu possible on the psp at good speeds has already been made to basically the best of it's preformance and now all we have is zx-81 but the only one that i can see being improved upon is the gba or 64 and no one wants to work on them now it seems we have dark-alex as i havent heard to much activity from fanjita

[a_noob]

Originally Posted by slicer4ever

yea true but still practically every emu possible on the psp at good speeds has already been made to basically the best of it's preformance and now all we have is zx-81 but the only one that i can see being improved upon is the gba or 64 and no one wants to work on them now it seems we have dark-alex as i havent heard to much activity from fanjita

?????
There are SDL and OpenGL ports for the psp so no emu is needed.

[SG57]

No, he was talking about how every emu possible for hte PSP, is here. The only things needing improvement are N64 and GBA.

As for learning SDL or OpenGL and porting it... Well, OpenGL leans towards making 3D games requiring alot more effort, where as SDL I rather not struggle iwth since Ive seen some source using it and I just dont want to hassle with that. And plus, no need for compilation using LUA, and im looking for something to do in some spare time, and lately its christmas break and it hasnt snowed enough to gosnowskating, so ihave alot of time.

Oh and I prefer to make games and play those, then just play games... And having a little FMA fetish lately, why not try to make a beat em up, but add to it all i want. so far, Ive completed all the mechanics for any beat em up, I just need the enemy and its AI, then start with the storyline enemies and whatnot... Currently as i type, i just finished converting single sprites into nice sprite sheets, saving me 15 kb for every 8 sprites sheets i convert single sprites to...

But after this, Ill be asking for a partner developer as developing alone is... well lonesome and pretty hard at times when you only know one technique or routine to do something pretty CPU tedious... But anywho... Going to grab some food and back to work.... gotta make sprite sheets out of hte enemy (hes a fat ninja lol)

[Grimfate126]

Originally Posted by alatnet

I still think that my animated sprite class/library is more efficient and less likely to have noob errors in it....

not jealous are we? lol, jk. come on, one mistake. sue me. and im pretty sure my lib is probably as efficient as yours.feel free to prove me wrong.

[alatnet]

ok, does your lib just load one image and not reload it but set a redirection to the loaded image?