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**NeoGreendawg** · 12-01-2005, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by iball

(the following is for the French-impaired)
Mathieulh, I adore when you come to give to them to their places, especially iball, it believes any knowledge this fdp... Lastly, good continuation with you and the SXT ds your projects!

I knew you'd try and translate and for a babbelfish translation it's pretty understandable... Far from correct but you caught my drift... apart from the abrreviation "fdp" which everyone who's ever lived in France would easily understand. I'll leave it at that - as an "insider" joke.

**Jake** · 12-01-2005, 02:23 PM

What part of "knock it off" don't you understand, NeoGreen?

**mathieulh** · 12-01-2005, 02:24 PM

Teamoverlad, it's sad but they did brick, all the "virgin" stuff was a rumour started by *****, and every people saying it worked said bull****, the fact is... it couldn't work (at least not downgrade to 1.00 that's for sure) as 2+2 cannot make 5....

**iball®** · 12-01-2005, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by mathieulh

I said the IPL is encrypted using XOR like encryption unlike AES, I didn't say the boot.bin files or the psar were, beside there isn't only the encryption regarding the psra but also the format.

Next time learn to read instead of flamming....

Next time put out something other than "words' from "your team".
Ok, head-PSP-programmer, if it's soooo simple XOR encryption then explain this:

Why hasn't a signing and encryption app been created to allow anyone to sign an eboot?
I mean, according to you there is only "one encryption key" which has been obviously found by now what with Aenea's method and the firmware dumpers. By your logic, since there's only ONE KEY then it would be simple to reverse the process and sign and encrypt.
Methinks you should revisit the entire "signing" process again. Now, just how does that work using XOR encryption? If it were merely XOR encryption, then there wouldn't be a need for "signing" anything, now would there? But it's signed AND encrypted and that smacks of PKI.

**mathieulh** · 12-01-2005, 02:26 PM

The fact is we mess up with the way we write into the NAND, and we don't have thousands of psp to brick to perform experiments :/

That fact that we got it to writte into the nand is allready an improvement since the nand is write protected, and only using the nand API functions (even if they were documented) wouldn't alone do the job

**iball®** · 12-01-2005, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by TeamOverload

well iball the virgin psps didnt brick, so flashing directly to the nand will not necessarily brick

TO, there's no confirmed proof of that. A handful of members on "the other site" with postcounts less than 10 that just "say" it and never provide proof?
Honestly, do you know of ANYONE who has a 1.5 that has NEVER used anything to "modify" the firmware? Never used PSPset? Never used a version changer?
I don't.

**mathieulh** · 12-01-2005, 02:30 PM

iball, eboot encryption uses another algorithm called AES, I am talking about the IPL encryption that uses both XOR + GZ compression

XOR keys are often used within chips such as CPUs to decrypt datas.
As for the IPL key it's located within the CPU (we can't even extract it by software means yet) and not in the NAND.

Now stop saying s h i t , you don't just annoy me but everyone here.

EDIT : AES key used for elf files (data.psp located in the eboots), prx, save files etc etc are indeed asymetric encryption where you need an encryption key to encrypt anything

XOR key used for the IPL (and some NAND encrypted binaries) are symetric encryption that only needs a single key for both encryption and decryptions however the XOR keys are often hidden, in teh case of the psp it's hidden into a CMOS directly inclueded into the MIPS R4000 CPU.

**iball®** · 12-01-2005, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by mathieulh

iball, eboot encryption uses another algorithm called AES, I am talking about the IPL encryption that uses both XOR + GZ compression

XOR keys are often used within chips such as CPUs to decrypt datas.
As for the IPL key it's located within the CPU (we can't even extract it by software means yet) and not in the NAND.

Now stop saying s h i t , you don't just annoy me but everyone here.

I'm not the one releasing "downbrickers". You are. You knew those folks over at "the other site" would instantly post that thing on their site.
Is that your way of "cheap-n-safe" testing in order for your team to not risk their own PSPs? Oh, that's right, on your site you are always talking about how you've bricked this or that PSP.
Folks, that's a sign right there.
And now you say you speak for the entire pspupdates forum? I find that very hard to believe.

Bottom-line-up-front (BLUF) for a safe and secure way to operate:
Never tell anyone on the internet what you are working on, period.
If you've got a confirmed hack then post it, otherwise don't post anything about it at all.

**mathieulh** · 12-01-2005, 02:41 PM

I have no obligation toward you to post or share anything with you, beside we didn't release the "downbricker" it was leaked, and no as we don't own a cristal ball we had no way of knowing that a team would be stupid enough to leak a potential bricker (after having bricked at least one of their psp) and saying a bulls h i t story about 1.00 downgrading and "virgin" psps, when we only gave them for testing purposes, and to add some informations, we never told them what was the nand content, they didn't know it was an 1.50 nand, and they were obviously too stupid to check using an hex editor.

**iball®** · 12-01-2005, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by mathieulh

I have no obligation toward you to post or share anything with you, beside we didn't release the "downbricker" it was leaked, and no as we don't own a cristal ball we had no way of knowing that a team would be stupid enough to leak a potential bricker (after having bricked at least one of their psp) and saying a bull**** story about 1.00 downgrading and "virgin" psps, when we only gave them for testing purposes, and to add some informations, we never told them what was the nand content, they didn't know it was an 1.50 nand, and they were obviously too stupid to check using an hex editor....

You took in Yoshi, so yeah your team has made some serious bad judgement calls of late.
Trust no one. You live longer.

**NeoGreendawg** · 12-01-2005, 02:45 PM

I honestly think you've misinterpreted what Mathieulh said.
The sxt gave their findings to the team behind the censored site in the hope that they could share the burden of trying new stuff out...
I doubt they'll make that mistake again as they said on their website.
But you certainly can't blaim sxt for bricking any psps apart from the ones they own that's going way too far...

**mathieulh** · 12-01-2005, 02:47 PM

Taking Yoshi isn't a bad judjement, it's you who are (I am not talking to you personally but most of the scene) missjudjing him, he is way more reliable than any of the other psp scene members I know, he just had a huge ammount of bad luck (and some noob pricks flamming him while knowing nothing)

anyway I am out of here, I wont spend all the night arguing with someone such as you (talking to iball again) , trying to flame for no reason.
I need to get some sleep, meanwhile you can post crap and beeing sure I wont be able to respond.....

**iball®** · 12-01-2005, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by NeoGreendawg

I honestly think you've misinterpreted what Mathieulh said.
The sxt gave their findings to the team behind the censored site in the hope that they could share the burden of trying new stuff out...
I doubt they'll make that mistake again as they said on their website.
But you certainly can't blaim sxt for bricking any psps apart from the ones they own that's going way too far...

Anyone who has gone into those forums at p-s-p-3-d would have KNOWN they couldn't trust them to hold the knowledge to themselves.
Ok, so it's more of a case of "involuntary PSP-slaughter".
Either way it doesn't work.
And it turns out we are BOTH right. :)
He went one way, and I went in the other direction.

**mathieulh** · 12-01-2005, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by NeoGreendawg

I honestly think you've misinterpreted what Mathieulh said.
The sxt gave their findings to the team behind the censored site in the hope that they could share the burden of trying new stuff out...
I doubt they'll make that mistake again as they said on their website.
But you certainly can't blaim sxt for bricking any psps apart from the ones they own that's going way too far...

About bricking our own psps, we bricked 2 of ours trying nand writting, and indeed you got the point :)

**iball®** · 12-01-2005, 02:52 PM

Ladies and Gents, this is what you call a "heated debate", most of you confuse it with "flaming".
At the end, we see each other's points even if we might not agree.
If only U.S. Presidential debates had such emotion in them and weren't so "scripted".

**Kazekage** · 12-01-2005, 02:54 PM

:O the stuff u 2 were talking about is sum serious s h i t and i myself have NO knowledge of these crypt stuff u talk about.. u guys could probably make ur own PSPs how come u know so much?

**NeoGreendawg** · 12-01-2005, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by iball

If only U.S. Presidential debates had such emotion in them and weren't so "scripted".

With such a sad ending too...

**Noveed** · 12-01-2005, 02:57 PM

love the lame flame crap that is being brought out here, dont really care about the so called "downbricker" but what does strike me is that the amount of idiots on this board.

@ Iball : Yeah your a good debater, pretty confident, but then again you are quick to flame

, just a quick question, Have you produced anything like what Math/Yoshi have produced/or otherwised stolen and released?

@Math : Seems ur in a bit of a mess mate, fighting on many fronts, p s p 3 d and now here too, hahaha good luck, p s p 3 d site is just a rip off of this site, mony making scam scheme.
As for yoshi well he doesnt have the best of rep in the scene anymore, maybe something productive could redeem him and yourselves.

I know people would be licking your ginger toe nails(if they are ginger that is :P ) if you brought out a Loader for GTA on 1.5 and 1.0 , but then again what does that make them? Hypocrits?

@Others+the above : feel free to flame me

**iball®** · 12-01-2005, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by NeoGreendawg

With such a sad ending too...

Agree. It was more of a national "Fear Factor" election where the audience feared both both factors but chose the "safer" of two evils.

**Master Inuyasha** · 12-01-2005, 03:04 PM

-takes out flamethrower- @ Noveed I FLAME YOU, just kidding.
You guys are acting childish. I mean really. The dude from p-s-p-3-d, leave now, stop trying to explain, leave, come back with proof, and the downgrader, and shove it into everyones face, otherwise, dont waste your time. iball has every right to flame, as he doesnt believe you, and he isnt like new users who say, wtf teh iz stuped, thiz neva gonna work, u guyz jus retardid, an shuld al jus stop an show sum prof. So, stop wasting time, work hard, and be successful. iball, I am dissappointed. The respect I held for you, has now just been lost. And alot of other people on this forum would agree with me.

**Kazekage** · 12-01-2005, 03:04 PM

I-Ball is a computer 2 know so much!

**mathieulh** · 12-01-2005, 03:06 PM

Noveed Why a GTA loader ? I personally own the USA version of GTA (the original UMD) and I personally don't care about updating and downgrading all the time, nor as playing gta iso on 1.50.

Now you wanna know why gta iso doesn't run (beside from the encryption problems)?

Because GTA performs a prx version check and wont run if the version is lower than 2.00

**TeamOverload** · 12-01-2005, 03:14 PM

wow this has been an exciting debate

**Fanjita** · 12-01-2005, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by mathieulh

EDIT: OH I almost forgot, EVERY psp game runs using KERNEL mode !

Minor correction here, between gaps in the flames...

They might start in kernel mode (for initialisation, etc), but I would expect the majority of the code runs in user-space. Certainly that's been the finding with GTA : all the threads accessible to the exploit have user-mode attributes. At this time there is no way to use the GTA save-game exploit to access kernel-mode - which is a damn shame.

I wouldn't expect the situation to be any different for any other save-game exploit - after all, the savedata API is a user-mode stub, if I recall correctly.

**kuroneko** · 12-01-2005, 05:59 PM

Just out of curiosity, while looking at this - for want of a better word - downgrader, where is the missing 33rd MB of NAND?

While those devices can be used in 32MB mode (wrong word, I know) it would be irresponsible not to use the redundant data areas for block mapping (needed for wear-leveling). Also looking through the NAND dump, boot sectors and partition tables are all in the wrong places (i.e. it doesn't add up to a proper file system structure) which strongly suggests that block mapping is used.

In other words, simply reprogramming your PSP with this dump is insane (assuming the above observation holds true).

**mathieulh** · 12-02-2005, 07:20 AM

the NAND organisation itself changes if you dump it using either page dumping or block dumping, but both didn't writte correctly on our writting tests.

About the NAND size it should be 32768KBytes if I am correct.

however I can assure you that this is an untouched dump from my own nand, therefore I dont think that the partition tables should be in the wrong places nor as the boot sectors, (however the IPL block area changes from page dumped NAND and bloc dumped NAND)

You seem to be knowledgable in the matter of the NAND data organisation.

If the moderators allow me to, I can post links to NAND dumped per page and you will be able to see the differences with the NAND per blocks (the one leacked by p s p 3 d was dumped per blocks).

To Fanjita: Indeed you might be right, if we would be able to use that exploit we could test it but only Edison Carter seems to know how to use it :/

**iball®** · 12-02-2005, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Master Inuyasha

-takes out flamethrower- @ Noveed I FLAME YOU, just kidding.
You guys are acting childish. I mean really. The dude from p-s-p-3-d, leave now, stop trying to explain, leave, come back with proof, and the downgrader, and shove it into everyones face, otherwise, dont waste your time. iball has every right to flame, as he doesnt believe you, and he isnt like new users who say, wtf teh iz stuped, thiz neva gonna work, u guyz jus retardid, an shuld al jus stop an show sum prof. So, stop wasting time, work hard, and be successful. iball, I am dissappointed. The respect I held for you, has now just been lost. And alot of other people on this forum would agree with me.

The guy isn't from p-s-p-3-d, he's from S-X-T I believe.

**cLoT** · 12-02-2005, 08:29 AM

Just heard that there was a willy contest going on in here. Who's winning? Not that I want to see it. But seriously, I just finished reading the last ten pages or so, and it's better than the front page of The Herald.

**iball®** · 12-02-2005, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by cLoT

Just heard that there was a willy contest going on in here. Who's winning? Not that I want to see it. But seriously, I just finished reading the last ten pages or so, and it's better than the front page of The Herald.

But not as good as the front page of The Onion.

**Fanjita** · 12-02-2005, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by mathieulh

You seem to be knowledgable in the matter of the NAND data organisation.

If the moderators allow me to, I can post links to NAND dumped per page and you will be able to see the differences with the NAND per blocks (the one leacked by p s p 3 d was dumped per blocks).

You should continue that discussion via PM, or preferably email. Since the NAND contents are Sony copyright, they should not be hosted on this site.

Originally Posted by mathieulh

To Fanjita: Indeed you might be right, if we would be able to use that exploit we could test it but only Edison Carter seems to know how to use it :/

He did quite a lot of investigation of the environment before releasing the cheat device, and found that only the standard system threads, plus a few user-threads (belonging to the game) were available to him. The thread that his exploit hijacks is definitely user-mode.

I don't believe he's intending to distribute his source code, so we have to take his word for it on the test results.

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