2.0 Kernal Why Not Exactly?

[nxtlidenno]

So can someone who is knowladgable tell me why exactly we cant have the ability to modify some progs using kernal such as UmdEmu or FA++ to run in the partial kernal environment provided by the exploit in 2.0?

[Nytrix]

yea i agree too..

and id like kernal too..and im no pirate...i use umd emu..i own fired up..i use umd emu for the fired up browser..
i play pop on umd emu (i own the umd) because the loading times are terrible.

[nxtlidenno]

Well I use Umd Emu for Ghost in the shell because there is no text displayed in the menu unless you emulate flash1 and then launch the umd with 2.0 flash1 installed. And this is with the original umd. I use FA++ for all kinds of stuff text reader ect... and i use a lot of other apps that wont work with even the new 0.9 loader.

[nxtlidenno]

So does anyone have any knowladge to share with us on this matter? Any one at all?

[hippie]

the creator of the loader put in safegards to prevent the needed type of kernel

[cwirsing]

I heard that fanjita was thinking of something that can only play your own back upped iso's. I also agree that most of the games the loading times are terrible. Like the sims 2. Half of the time playing the game is loading.

[TheMysteriousThug]

Kernel isn't possible since Sony locked up the kernel only for Sony licensed stuff like UMDs.

[PSP250]

Originally Posted by nxtlidenno

So can someone who is knowladgable tell me why exactly we cant have the ability to modify some progs using kernal such as UmdEmu or FA++ to run in the partial kernal environment provided by the exploit in 2.0?

Q: Why can't we modify progs using kernel to run/use in the partial kernel environment?

A: Since pure kernel mode functionality is not able to run from user mode which is what the TIFF exploit is providing.

Your definition "the partial kernel environment" should actually be called "kernel mode functions which can be called from within user mode" to avoid thinking there would be kernel mode access. Certain kernel mode functions simply can not be called from user mode and thus need real kernel mode (used by the applications you named).

The problematic issue is that real kernel mode is not yet possible to be used on 2.0.

The reason results from common logic upon exploits: The code you inject using an exploit has the same permissions as the exploited process/program in most cases.

In the TIFF exploit the process is running in user mode. Due to protection measures a process from either mode can not access the other directly.

However, there are ways to "load/start" code which would run in kernel mode from within user mode but these require signed/encrypted executables from 2.0 onwards.

Hope that was possible to understand.

[Skydevil]

Originally Posted by TheMysteriousThug

Kernel isn't possible since Sony locked up the kernel only for Sony licensed stuff like UMDs.

Umm, no.

[nxtlidenno]

I understand this but fanjita had said once himself about the iffyness of running an iso from the memstick with 2.0 but that it should be possible but he is not going to lead us by the hand to modify what we have now to do this. And yes I think that he has placed safegaurds on his loader to prvent use of loaders either that or he has left out certain things that could allow this.

[TheMysteriousThug]

Damn, I remember a mod saying something like that....

[nxtlidenno]

Yeah that was fanjita.

[nxtlidenno]

Heres the way I see it Fanjita doesnt want to be the one Who opens up another can of piracy and I dont blame him but There has to be someone with the same knowladge that he has with the tiff exploit and everything else then mabye that person should follow behind what fanjita has already accomplished and make adjustments to it so that kernal functions that are needed could be called or eliminated where not needed for kernal apps to run properly in 2.0 (Im no coder so I dont know but maybe)

[Calum]

Kernel doesnt work because the exploit isnt in kernel space, its in extended user space

[IchigoKurosaki]

Originally Posted by PSP250

Since pure kernel mode functionality is not able to run from user mode which is what the TIFF exploit is providing.

Exactly That is why you have to do the WiFi Trick in order to get WiFi, but technically if you were to go into a game and then press L+R+Select wouldn't that unlock Kernel Access Mode.

[nxtlidenno]

Ok then Tell me this if the tiff exploit and the gta exploit only runs in user and UMD games themselfs run in user but access everything they need to run then why cant everything be modified to only access user mode functions instead of kernal? I would think that a game need more access to run then a homebrew app or loader

[SodR]

Many people here are saying that the tiff exploit runs int user mode or extended user mode. It's called vsh mode, which most of you know, is a hybrid between user and kernel mode.

So I think if an experienced coder, like fanjita or Humma (too bad he dropped all his deving...), would be able to create an iso loader.

[Grimfate126]

the problem is, a umd loader needs to access the umd in the drive and that function can ONLY be proformed in kernal space. why does it need to access the umd? ask humma.(i think it needs to get some starting code to run the iso) if someone found another way, then good for them. i dont really care.

[nxtlidenno]

Devhook is the other way no umd needed

[PSPHax0r9]

Hmmm...piracy, tsk tsk tsk.
But I think Fanjita should look into limited kernel access, as in trying to find workarounds for some programs like he did with WiFi. The reason I want some of these functions is that PacManFan has started to become active again working on his PSOne Emulator for the PSP, and he will be releasing a demo EBOOT of his progress this week. I am positive that this uses certain kernel mode functions, although I do not know which. Once we get a close-to-full-speed version of the emu, I am sure there will be a demand for this on 2.0, and Fanjita will probably look into it then. But if you are reading this, Fanjita, maybe you could start thinking about finding a workaround for at least this program.

P.S. Please.

[cyanide]

[offtopic]
@PSPHaxor9:man, change that sig...youre only helping sony
[/offtopic]

[nxtlidenno]

Piracy? Well lets see its starting to seem like you cant have hacking & cracking without piracy but thats not what we are discussing here and i am not a pirate...Argh

[nxtlidenno]

I do wonder though if anyone out there is actually working on this as we speak it would be nice to upgarde to 2.0 permanently.

[Jouw]

I would love a UMD emulator program on 2.0. Not for piracy, but for running my own backups! My favourite game, Sims 2, insists on loading stuff from the UMD most of the time, a MS would solve that problem.

[PSPHax0r9]

Originally Posted by Jouw

I would love a UMD emulator program on 2.0. Not for piracy, but for running my own backups! My favourite game, Sims 2, insists on loading stuff from the UMD most of the time, a MS would solve that problem.

That is still piracy. Copyright laws say unauthorized copying, distribution, bla blah blah.. of the game is prohibited by law. So, even backups are illegal...

[PSPHax0r9]

Originally Posted by cyanide

[offtopic]
@PSPHaxor9:man, change that sig...youre only helping sony
[/offtopic]

Hey, I've gotta weed out the pirates somehow, I mayaswell get them when they are just starting. :icon_wink

Don't worry though, some n00bs have PM'd me about my sig and asking if upgrading to 2.6 really works for ISO's. I always tell them that my sig is a lie and they will lose homebrew if they upgrade. I'm not that evil...

[00100001]

getting kernel access would be like bypassing all of sony's securities on the PSP... i think. The kernel is bassically the firmware.

[Mod Edit: Keep it PSPositive]

[Fanjita]

Originally Posted by PSPHax0r9

Hmmm...piracy, tsk tsk tsk.
But I think Fanjita should look into limited kernel access, as in trying to find workarounds for some programs like he did with WiFi. The reason I want some of these functions is that PacManFan has started to become active again working on his PSOne Emulator for the PSP, and he will be releasing a demo EBOOT of his progress this week. I am positive that this uses certain kernel mode functions, although I do not know which. Once we get a close-to-full-speed version of the emu, I am sure there will be a demand for this on 2.0, and Fanjita will probably look into it then. But if you are reading this, Fanjita, maybe you could start thinking about finding a workaround for at least this program.

P.S. Please.

PSOne currently runs on EBOOT loader - from 0.8.5+, I think. I don't have any reason yet to suspect that any update won't also work.


BTW, on the piracy front, we have the debate every now and then about whether backups are legal. Basically, it all depends on your local laws - the US, with the DMCA, appears to have made doing almost anything with copyrighted material illegal. Some other countries are more reasonable about what constitutes 'fair use'.

On a moral - rather than legal - level, in my opinion it's entirely reasonable to make backups for personal use. But since making those backups breaks the law in many countries, it's a grey area.

[nxtlidenno]

Yeah but what about the rest of us who want the other progs to work what can be done? I know something can thats why i started this thread.

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by nxtlidenno

Yeah but what about the rest of us who want the other progs to work what can be done? I know something can thats why i started this thread.

You cant just magically turn a user mode exploit into a kernal one. The guys trying his best to simulate a kernal enviorment just look at the improvements the eboot loaders gone thru. But at the end of day its not kernal and its going to take a lot of time to get the kind of level of kernel emulation (if thats even possible) to get an iso loader to work. I mean hes had to add an extra hack to get wifi to work. And Im sure isos use every level of the psp features what with being full blown games and all.

He may not be aiming specifically to get iso loaders working but its not like hes making a consious effort to stop isos working either and every update he makes to the eboot loader brings you closer to iso support (if its possible).

So stop slagging the guy off, as if he stopping your presious isos working, hes doing a great deal for everyone bringing them the ability to play awsome hombrew games which otherwise would be unavaliable to us on 2.0 firmware and hes even trying (and almost certainly going to suceed) in bringing hombrew to 2.1 and 2.5 user and posibly 2.6 users (although he has said his will take a while)

And stop complaining if you want isos downgrade back to 1.5 or better yet buy the game, and if you have bought the game (unlikely with most people who whine on about iso but my appologies if you own them, for implying you pirate) you could try this new idea of actually playing the game using the umd!


Sorry to rant but I thought it had to be said to all these people who seem to think fanjitas holding the eboot loader back in any way, which is just plain stupid. Its the best loader he can possibly bring out at any time and everytime he comes up with a way to release a better loader he does just that release a better loader