PSP Shells - A War that Must End

[ikarius]

My usual "before-topic" notes. First, if this thread is not at the right place, please move it. I took a guess that this was the right place, but I am not quite sure. Second, people will think I am a "stupid opinated" person, or something, because it's the second time I say what I think about a situation. Although, if people can learn something out of it, you are free to take whatever you want. I just think that it's important that we discuss it, because this is an important matter.

Lately, we've seen planty of new PSP Shells coming out, including PSP-OSS, MbShell and the last but not the least controversial PSIX. This exploded in some kind of war on the front page comment board, I would be sad to be a developper of one of these.

I understand everyone frustrations. I do agree with everyone about the fact of paying for homebrew is not good, personally, I wouldn't. That being said, people raised their voices and said their opinion many times (I've seen quite many topics about this around the forums). Although, it is enough to give you a headache.

PSP-OSS is free, lack of some features but is very functional. It allows basically to run UMD, games, and other great features, and is open source (feel free to correct me there, I am not too sure about this...). This is what makes it unique.

Today MbShell shows us new features and quite impressive design. So, it goes for all tastes, isn't it ? For sure, it doesn't have all features you'd want, but it takes time to create such piece of software and making sure it's functionnal.

PSIX, while many people think it's deceiving due to it's lack of working features and it's "membership", did a great job over the coding, although took quite resonable time, enough to make such a big scene.

My opinion ? They are all unique but have similar features. People choose what's the best for them. If you like PSIX then, go for it, if you like MbShell better then shall you use that one !

Without causing a flaming war, my only opinion over PSIX and what makes me go back, is I knew what was happening. MbShell didn't took that much time to create, less than PSIX. PSIX created a "need". Showing people screenshots and making them want PSIX, then, delay a release date to wait for more people, and make a big amazing scene. God, I never seen people anticipating so much a piece of software, but in the end, 90% of those people has been deceived, and I can understand them. What they thought was fully functional, what looked so good, and what they wanted so much appeared to be lacking of many features already implanted in other Shells. By creating this anticipation, they had themselves some "faithfull" making them willing to pay and continuing to be faithfull to PSIX.

In the end, they are all the same, just different. Quite weird to say it like that, but try them and you'll understand. Thing for sure, whenever everyone said their opinion on something, it's time to move on and stop doing such immature comments like I've seen on MbShell comment board. I don't say it is everyone, but some individual gotta go over it, and move on.

I just thought I'd say my thoughts about it, and I would like to know everyone opinions about it. Not just the PSIX case, about all this shell case. What do you think ? Do you think this should cease at once, I mean, the bad comments ? What would you have to say to the developpers of those shells ? What real comments do you have ? Or did you ever tried all of those shells ? If you did, is it possible to compare them ? Those are all questions I am asking you to let people know what you think and your opinion over this "Shell War" that I personally think, should end.

[DigitalEvil]

I have had this feeling for a long time now:

People need to shut up and stop complaining about things and comparing everything against each other. There are a select number of people who know who they are that just can't seem to stop being whinny little (dare I say) pricks when it comes to homebrew. Those people are the reason that we do not have as many advancements in homebrew as we should, they are the reason that some good coders have moved away from the psp homebrew community, and they are the reason that psp homebrew will continue to be a problem for many people because of their extreme efforts to ruin the experience for everyone else.

They need to grow up and stop thinking that their petty immature little opinions matter, because in the long run no one really cares about them and their stupid childish ranting and yelling about how much something that they could never make sucks because it is missing a feature they want, or because it doesnt totally do or have everything they expected or wanted.

Grow up people. Try not to open your mouths until you have learned how to properly address something and talk about it in a even slightly civilized manner.

What many people fail to realize is that one reason for a longer development of psix is because of the larger picture. The complete FINAL product with complete knowledge of everything involved, which is to be an almost complete and (hopefully) seemless transition into a totally new and functional OS for the psp. Meaning that it is not just a slight replacement one, or one that will give certain features to users, but rather an OS that will act as a total replacement, with continuing updates and new features produced by the the devs as well as the homebrew community. This and many other reasons is why I support psix. Because unlike many people who can't seem to realize purpose and potential, I trust how things will turn out.

[ikarius]

Originally Posted by DigitalEvil

I have had this feeling for a long time now:

People need to shut up and stop complaining about things and comparing everything against each other. There are a select number of people who know who they are that just can't seem to stop being whinny little (dare I say) pricks when it comes to homebrew. Those people are the reason that we do not have as many advancements in homebrew as we should, they are the reason that some good coders have moved away from the psp homebrew community, and they are the reason that psp homebrew will continue to be a problem for many people because of their extreme efforts to ruin the experience for everyone else.

They need to grow up and stop thinking that their petty immature little opinions matter, because in the long run no one really cares about them and their stupid childish ranting and yelling about how much something that they could never make sucks because it is missing a feature they want, or because it doesnt totally do or have everything they expected or wanted.

Grow up people. Try not to open your mouths until you have learned how to properly address something and talk about it in a even slightly civilized manner.

What many people fail to realize is that one reason for a longer development of psix is because of the larger picture. The complete FINAL product with complete knowledge of everything involved, which is to be an almost complete and (hopefully) seemless transition into a totally new and functional OS for the psp. Meaning that it is not just a slight replacement one, or one that will give certain features to users, but rather an OS that will act as a total replacement, with continuing updates and new features produced by the the devs as well as the homebrew community. This and many other reasons is why I support psix. Because unlike many people who can't seem to realize purpose and potential, I trust how things will turn out.

And I do not deny your faith. This post is meant to express my opinion about the shell war. Personally, I am not one to compare, I just go with what I see, and look at people's opinion on one matter. I do not judge by the cover, that is a way to put it. Unfortunatly, there is deceptions, but I didn't say it stops there either. There is things that can be done, and there is things that will be done, let's just hope it keeps like this.

What i hate though is seeing all those people sending stupid comments, getting really off-topic or offensive. I think its just sad for people who passes their time for them. But, hey, what's my opinion in this world ? I am simply one person among many others, although, I am sure some of you share this opinion.

[FrozenIpaq]

The shell war is no where to be found on these forums :O Although the shell war within the forums might be going inside everyone, it is not expressed, and when it is we try to remove it. On the front page however, we can not control those without a blogger account (full access to front page!). So, for now I would disregard many of the front page comments as they are very unconstructive, bad-mannered and just incorrect.

[C10uD]

I think that people should be smart enough to choose between what "the market" offers.

The only thing that i think must be preserved is the "par condicio" advertsing between these three pieces of software. So we _should_ give the same space to PSP-OSS, Artillery and PSiX. [Yes, I'm referring to the million threads psix-related :P]

My idea is a thread for Dev-related things and a thread for answers and questions .. for each shell.

This IMHO.

[and, oh, these shells are obscuring very interesting threads 'bout other homebrew apps! :P:P:P]

Cheers,

[Kotsos]

The difference between the approach to PSP OSS and PSIX is the noise created behind the second because the devs are charging for it...(note: let us not start a post war here as to what exactly a member is paying for this subject has been discussed many times).

Other than that PSIX is not complete yet. I will wait once it is complete and then I will write a critique.

[triniboy]

It's true, a small group of people around the forums just like to here their own voice...and most times will simply come online and comment on things that they have never tried or don’t understand, so I always find myself having to weed out the crap ‘comments’ to find info or advice that can help me make an informed decision on a piece of app, this takes time and sometimes I’m not up to reading 50 pages of junk. This is where Psix makes a HUGE difference. The people who paid know that when they login to the PRO area it’s all good….there is no crap comments flying around or people pissing on other people’s comments…and so far all the info is helpful…In fact I think there should be more boards taking this membership approach, as it weeds out the time wasters. It’s kinda like pspcrazy.com…over at that board you have to contribute to the community to get the good stuff. I am very passionate about the Dev’s as they put a lot of work into their craft and it is disrespectful when you read some of the bull people post. So I have no problem paying the small fee for anything I deem worth while. I would agree you have to be vigilant when signing up for stuff and not everyone online would be seeking your interest…infact the internet is a VERY evil and deadly place (insert evil laugh here - mwahahahaha, muhuhahaha, mwahahaha) it always pays to do your homework and get as much facts before you do anything.

[MAIcrosoft]

i dont really think its a war *between* the shells but its more that the users make their own war ~_^ i dont care what everyone thinks and have 3 shells nicely running on my PSP and I love them all~~ [:

[KINGOFNOOBS]

MB SHELL 4 LIFE!! lol well ill use all Shell's depending on which one is best so i dont care.

[alteridoS]

I have all three on my PSP. MBShell, PSPOSS, and PSIX, although PSIX is listed on the bottom and the other two are the very top. I switch between MB and PSPOSS because PSIX, as everyone else knows, is useless at this moment. It also has two corrupted icons that cannot be hidden. MB shell, in my opinion, is much better than the other two in that it emulates a PC desktop very well, and that is a very good thing to me. Problem, however, is that it plays nothing until you actually move them. I suspect this will be fixed before PSIX comes out with another download, so I continue to use MBShell(the plasma version).

I realize all have faithful followers, even some which are more extremists than the others. I consider myself to be in the middle of these people. Like I said, I have all three. I’m this way with everything, consoles included. I simply get them all instead of focusing on just one. There are loud mouths on both sides of this plain. You have people heatedly defending or flaming in most threads. Hell, there are people acting immature in threads that don’t even have any flaming going on. Take FrozenIpaq in my signature, or simply take DigitalEvil in this thread. I know both examples are of the defenders, but I didn’t feel like digging up the old PSIX RELEASED thread. You can find good examples of both types of people, both of which I feel are absurd.

All three equal to less than 32mb, and in essence, all three are completely free. Just download them all and enjoy them all.

[Nevada]

I never really *got* psp shell wars, i've offered to do (all i can), aka, Graphical work for both PSP-OSS, and MbShell, i am in no way in "competition" or at war with the other creators of shells, and any comments comparing shells to others i ignore because that isn't what it's all about.
Generally, all shell makers are developers, and they have my respect for being devs, regaurdless of what people think of psix, or how it stands up beside other shells, that really is pointless, because no matter how much other shells "own psix", i'm not going to turn around and be an ******* to other developers.

Elz and co, and Blue2k have my full support on anything they choose to do, not because im "sucking up", "wanting source code", or any other stupid reason, they have my support because they are fellow coders/developers.

Any other outlook on things i would consider to be very childish and detrimental to the scene.

To answer questions on why psix took so long, this was in no way a tool to creating hype, when we originally started work on a shell, we had a few "can i be a beta tester?", people testing it, and the application was subsequently leaked, we ended up saying "to hell with it" and gave away both the binaries and source, at that poing qubitz decided he didn't want to carry on with a shell idea, so i took it upon myself (i am a poor coder, i can do things but not WELL), and i decided from the start that i would be open about the project and let everyone know exactly what was going on, and the development and videos/images you see from those 5 1/2 months of work is infact real, however as you may have seen if you were following the whole thing, i eventually got qubitz back on board, and to be completely honest, i was ashamed of my code, as i stated publicly, i was having memory issues across the board, and everythen was really sloppy and sluggish.
It was at that point that qubitz and I decided we would completely recode and redesign psix from scratch (almost 6 weeks ago now).
We have done so, and i am absolutely proud of the quality of code and design that has gone into it, it isn't very functional yet but it soon will be, and as features are tested by our pro members and found to be stable they will start working their way into the public builds.
This isn't actually a means of leeching money from the public because if you don't want to pay all you have to do is be patient, all it is, is a way of filtering out the useless posts and comments which neither help nor encourage our work.

And as i'm sure any of the pro members can confirm, i have already gone to great lengths to make sure that the membership fee is absolutely worth it, and i could go into the many ways i've tried to insure that but i'm afraid iball would jump on me and call it a gimmick again :P

Either way, Elz, Blue2K, and the guys working on PSPOSX, rock on, and ignore the childish comments!

[matriculated]

There's a shell war? Unless the authors of each shell are dissin' each other there is no war. If you're talking about a bunch of users arguing with each other then who cares?

[Mondy]

Fluff really said it all, between all the devs working on PSP-OSS, MBShell, PSIX and others there is nothing war happening. As was mentioned ealier it is the community which create these problems and we have to deal with it. I have tried both MBShell (not the new one yet.) and PSIX and you can tell the devs have put a great amount of effort into it and really should be getting respect from the community. PSIX is much better graphicly atm but it seems to have a great base for expansion. MBShell is also a great shell with lots of working functions atm.

As much as these wars go on about which shell will be the best etc i really dobut anyone can say as you never know what will happen over the next year. I mainly use PSP-OSS because im working on it and know that i can edit it to be whatever i want it to be. On the other hand i am going to download the new MBShell and buy PSIX pro after we release our next version.

Anyway I will finish with good luck and keep up the good work.

[DigitalEvil]

Originally Posted by alteridoS

I have all three on my PSP. MBShell, PSPOSS, and PSIX, although PSIX is listed on the bottom and the other two are the very top. I switch between MB and PSPOSS because PSIX, as everyone else knows, is useless at this moment. It also has two corrupted icons that cannot be hidden. MB shell, in my opinion, is much better than the other two in that it emulates a PC desktop very well, and that is a very good thing to me. Problem, however, is that it plays nothing until you actually move them. I suspect this will be fixed before PSIX comes out with another download, so I continue to use MBShell(the plasma version).

I realize all have faithful followers, even some which are more extremists than the others. I consider myself to be in the middle of these people. Like I said, I have all three. I’m this way with everything, consoles included. I simply get them all instead of focusing on just one. There are loud mouths on both sides of this plain. You have people heatedly defending or flaming in most threads. Hell, there are people acting immature in threads that don’t even have any flaming going on. Take FrozenIpaq in my signature, or simply take DigitalEvil in this thread. I know both examples are of the defenders, but I didn’t feel like digging up the old PSIX RELEASED thread. You can find good examples of both types of people, both of which I feel are absurd.

All three equal to less than 32mb, and in essence, all three are completely free. Just download them all and enjoy them all.

I was not flaming in any way or acting in an immature way either. I was simply commenting on the people who like triniboy stated, simply like putting things down and hearing their own voice. I personally do not think there is any war between the OS's going on, but rather a small amount of people who feel the need to put things down. You do not see any comments of me putting down any other OS's here, but rather defending against random put downs on things.

Now, I am open to the use of any OS, yes I have my prefered one, but it doesnt mean that I have not tried the others, and even enjoyed some of the features. The need to put down the work of people is pointless and one thing that I cannot stand.

PS: From a dev point of view Fluff put it perfectly

[FrozenIpaq]

alteridoS,

FYI: I have all the PSP shells on my PSP and I support them all. The example in your signature is horrible. I closed that poll because I hate to see Psix flames and PSP-OSS flames (which have happend on these forums a lot, so I closed it!). PSix and PSP-OSS are both developing every day and you can't judge a program as is that hasn't been out for long.

You can't compare Psix to PSP-OSS...PSP-OSS has been under developement slightly longer than Psix has and Psix just arrived later than PSP-OSS. Psix needs to catch up and that they are doing.

I do not have any biased opinions at all, I have all three shells on my PSP. I hate it when people are missinformed like you are.

Please, tell me why you think I am biased...if you have an issue on how I handle things, than please go ahead and tell me. I have been in the PSP Scene since the beginning and have supported everyone (and I mean everyone) that has released a program and try to help as much as I can when I see a project that can possibly beneift from my help.

I'm just infuriated that you think I'm biased...I have supported all shells and have praised the devleoper's for their work, I have not flamed or said anything bad against one of them. The only reason why you see me more defensive about Psix..is because it is my duty as a moderator/admin to keep these forum under control, and like PSPAdvance, Psix has been very controversial for the $$ aspect. I have to take action against those who bash a developer or program, it is my duty to moderate these forums and even though it may look like I favor Psix more, I just try to help Fluff because of all the negative feedback Fluff has received for this wonderful program and those that are posting this negative feedback do not even know the truth!!

[Hardrive]

Shell War???

I know the posts in the news on the front page can be a little... offensive. I think this is cause the posting is managed thru some 3rd party blogging co.

I personally, realise that there are advantages and disadvantages to each, but find them rather pointless

sure, they organize your files, and play videos and music

all this can be done from the original os on psp (there's a program to organize files)

all in all, if there is a flame war goin on sumwhere, it should stop

[julez]

hey i dont blame fluff for taking so long maybe he has a magical thing called a life...
sometimes u dont have the time
maybe he has a job or a girl so he doesnt spend all the time coding
my 2 cents

[FrozenIpaq]

Originally Posted by julez

hey i dont blame fluff for taking so long maybe he has a magical thing called a life...
sometimes u dont have the time
maybe he has a job or a girl so he doesnt spend all the time coding
my 2 cents

To be exact:

The reason why it took soo long:

Originally Posted by Fluff

To answer questions on why psix took so long, this was in no way a tool to creating hype, when we originally started work on a shell, we had a few "can i be a beta tester?", people testing it, and the application was subsequently leaked, we ended up saying "to hell with it" and gave away both the binaries and source, at that poing qubitz decided he didn't want to carry on with a shell idea, so i took it upon myself (i am a poor coder, i can do things but not WELL), and i decided from the start that i would be open about the project and let everyone know exactly what was going on, and the development and videos/images you see from those 5 1/2 months of work is infact real, however as you may have seen if you were following the whole thing, i eventually got qubitz back on board, and to be completely honest, i was ashamed of my code, as i stated publicly, i was having memory issues across the board, and everythen was really sloppy and sluggish.
It was at that point that qubitz and I decided we would completely recode and redesign psix from scratch (almost 6 weeks ago now).
We have done so, and i am absolutely proud of the quality of code and design that has gone into it, it isn't very functional yet but it soon will be, and as features are tested by our pro members and found to be stable they will start working their way into the public builds.
This isn't actually a means of leeching money from the public because if you don't want to pay all you have to do is be patient, all it is, is a way of filtering out the useless posts and comments which neither help nor encourage our work.

[alteridoS]

Very well put, Ipaq. I apologize for inducing said emotions in you. It is not a case of being uninformed, but rather one of taking all your posts about PSIX and being able to form an opinion about them. To me, it seems, you take great measures to protect this application and would even go so far as to close a topic where everyone was being civilized about it, like in my signature. Closing seems a bit rash as you could just delete the posts and let everyone continue their debate in an intelligent manner.

[FrozenIpaq]

Originally Posted by alteridoS

Very well put, Ipaq. I apologize for inducing said emotions in you. It is not a case of being uninformed, but rather one of taking all your posts about PSIX and being able to form an opinion about them. To me, it seems, you take great measures to protect this application and would even go so far as to close a topic where everyone was being civilized about it, like in my signature. Closing seems a bit rash as you could just delete the posts and let everyone continue their debate in an intelligent manner.

Well, yes now that I think of it, closing that topic was rather harsh. The reason for the closure was to attempt to prevent a possible shell war amongst the users. In a previous Psix thread there were many comments on how it sucked and not to get it, I didn't want that same thing to happen again.

[birdman]

begun these shell wars have...

we need to have friendly comp. it helps each group strive for the best.

sort of like how M$, $ony and nintindo are all fighting for the best. so we see better and better systems each release.

(im an mbshell person myself)

[Nevada]

the users can have wars amongst themselves, the people actually working on them honestly couldnt give a **** about "competition".

[iball®]

Ok, kids, step back and take a look at the really big picture:
with everything ELSE going on in the world, you folks want to whine about people who prefer one type of homebrew PSP shell over the other?
Get over yourselves.
It's just a piece of software, it's not a nuclear weapon or the path to world peace.

[Garak]

Yes,

I agree. We should be talking about things like nuclear disarmament, and healthcare reform. This is a PSP site after all.

Garak

[iball®]

Originally Posted by Garak

Yes,

I agree. We should be talking about things like nuclear disarmament, and healthcare reform. This is a PSP site after all.

Garak

You still don't get it.
In the "PSP Scene" everyone raves about, this is a molehill.
Stop trying to make a mountain out of it.
I swear to God, this place is full of PSP-evangelists who have been watching way too much reality TV.
"Why can't we just all get along" never works. Never did, never will.
Face it, people will always have different opinions over different things, some more "fanatical" than others. You'll never change it no matter how many silly "wars-that-must-end" threads get created. It's really a non-issue.
Deal with it and stop whinging about it here.
(Big ups ma' Europe! You UK'ers out there know what I mean.)

[Angelus3K]

I can see it now, Star Wars VII: The Shell Wars

Darth Vaders Black PSP has PSIX whilst a Storm Troopers White PSP has PSP-OSS a battle ensues!!

Originally Posted by iball

(Big ups ma' Europe! You UK'ers out there know what I mean.)

"Hells Yeah!"

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by Fluff

the users can have wars amongst themselves

So true fluff, so true :|

[alteridoS]

I declare war on iBall.

[iball®]

Originally Posted by alteridoS

I declare war on iBall.

You're not old enough to declare anything at an airport, much less "war" on me.

[alteridoS]

I've pulled a few jihads in my day. Your emo lacks the power to get to me.