Looks like we might get DC on PSP after all... (seriously).

[Hardrive]

Originally Posted by GeneralPlot

Yeah, cause that would solve the speed problem, right?

Well, he was planning on having you set your clocks back an hour, so that when it takes an hour and ten minutes to load, it just seems like it didn't take very long. If you looked at the clock.

[GeneralPlot]

Originally Posted by Hardrive

Well, he was planning on having you set your clocks back an hour, so that when it takes an hour and ten minutes to load, it just seems like it didn't take very long. If you looked at the clock.

Funny enough, I feel the need to point out that the original PC version of NullDC won't run on Windows 9x/ME. Looks like the Bochs option is a no go. I guess he'll just have to recode it.

Seriously though, just like any other emulator project (PCSX2 for example), there's no way of knowing how it will perform until a build is made and optimized for the arch.

[Tets]

Originally Posted by GeneralPlot

It will be for slim (PSP-2000) models only, as the original fat models limited amount of RAM make emulation of the DC virtually impossible.

Having more RAM available isn't going to make it magically work better. The Dreamcast has a 200 MHz main processor and 100 MHz GPU. To be blunt, no one is ever going to get those both emulated at even a slightly acceptable speed on the PSP, which runs at a meager 333 MHz at max and from what I understand hasn't got a separate GPU.

To put these numbers in perspective, let's look at N64 emulation, as most of us know how well that works on PSP. The N64, in addition to being a generation older than the Dreamcast, has a processor running at a comparatively slow 93.75 MHz which has the good fortune to be very similar to the PSP's own MIPS processor, which cuts out a lot of the overhead. Even so, Daedalus, the leading N64 emulator for PSP, is only beginning to approach full speed. Dreamcast emulation would never even reach that point.

[MiKeY188]

If they ever did break it there would be no way in hell it would be near half speed i agree with freeplay

It's not going to happen, period. Comparing the N64 emulator to a DC emulator is ridiculous. It's like saying that since the PSP can play PS1 games it should be able to play PS2 games as well.

Its not gonna happen why do people make false promises?

[Alistar]

Why do people make false promises? Because they're human and humans don't like to be wrong.

The DC is far too complex for the PSP to emulate. Not only that, the PSP doesn't have enough power to emulate the DC.

Besides, mine still works fine and it has yet to show signs of age.

[mathieulh]

ROFL where is the ps3 emu !! xD

on a more serious note, Dreamcast emulation is never going to happen on psp, it is a matter of processing power, the psp does not have enough.

The psp does feature a gpu but it's crap next to the Nec's power VR (the one the dreamcast sports)

Finally there are more chances of emulating the ps2 due to both the ps2 and psp sharing the same cpu architecture (mips) than emulating the Dreamcast's SH4 cpu which is an entirely different architecture. Although of course due to the fact that the ps2 is much more powerful than the psp it is indeed also impossible to emulate it.

[GeneralPlot]

Had a chat with drk||razi last night, and thought I'd share his input.

Originally Posted by IRC

[20:48] <drk||Razi> i got a psp webcam ;p
[20:48] <`plot`> like in an hour
[20:48] <`plot`> ahh
[20:48] <`plot`> you got chotto shot?
[20:48] <`plot`> you should add me on go messenger
[20:49] <`plot`> I got the cam too ;p
[20:49] <`plot`> ordered?
[20:49] <drk||Razi> no
[20:49] <drk||Razi> free stuff
[20:49] <`plot`> ahh
[20:49] <`plot`> nice ;p
[20:49] <`plot`> you see that post at qj?
[20:49] <`plot`> I put the link in #nulldc
[20:49] <drk||Razi> my friend here has a spare cam
[20:50] <`plot`> they're saying ndc on psp can't be done ;p
[20:50] <drk||Razi> link ?
[20:50] <gigaherz> well on psp can't be done, on slim it might
[20:50] <gigaherz>
[20:50] <`plot`> that's what I said ;p
[20:50] <`plot`> one sec
[20:51] <`plot`> Looks like we might get DC on PSP after all... (seriously).
[20:52] <drk||Razi> Why do people make false promises? Because they're human and humans don't like to be wrong. << n00bs
[20:52] <`plot`> indeed
[20:52] <drk||Razi> they cant even read
[20:53] <drk||Razi> -.-
[20:53] <`plot`> XD
[20:53] <drk||Razi> i only promised i will try
[20:53] <drk||Razi> xD
[20:53] <`plot`> one person was dumb enough to even say that you'd use bochs to emulate win95
[20:53] <`plot`> so you wouldn't have to port the emu
[20:54] <drk||Razi> hah

[MiGs]

This is ridiculous, but anyways, maybe he could make a Dreamcast VMU emulator, that would be a better idea, or maybe thats what he meant all along?

[Hardrive]

Originally Posted by GeneralPlot

Had a chat with drk||razi last night, and thought I'd share his input.

Since you honestly thought I was serious, that shows how clueless that you are of the PSP scene. You don't have a clue about anything related to the PSP, yet you come here promising that you're beta testing a Dreamcast emulator?

As we all know, Bochs is incredibly slow under Windows 95 (10 minute boot times, no keyboard, etc). How would an emulator possibly work under it?

[NickyP]

Originally Posted by Hardrive

Since you honestly thought I was serious, that shows how clueless that you are of the PSP scene. You don't have a clue about anything related to the PSP, yet you come here promising that you're beta testing a Dreamcast emulator?

In his defense, he never once stated that he is testing the Dreamcast emulator in question (PSP one), only that he beta tests the PC version. That has nothing to do with his knowledge of the PSP; it's comparable to yelling at a an auto mechanic because he's unaware of how a water heater works. In fact, the man only came here to confirm that such a project exists.

Take it easy. Whether or not this nullDCPSP project fails, what does it matter to you anyways?

[Archaemic]

All I'm saying is that TRYING is a waste of effort.

[FreePlay]

All I'm saying is that NickyP's relentless optimism in the face of completely insurmountable odds is beginning to grate on me.

[GeneralPlot]

Originally Posted by Hardrive

Since you honestly thought I was serious, that shows how clueless that you are of the PSP scene. You don't have a clue about anything related to the PSP, yet you come here promising that you're beta testing a Dreamcast emulator?

As we all know, Bochs is incredibly slow under Windows 95 (10 minute boot times, no keyboard, etc). How would an emulator possibly work under it?

I never once said I believed you were serious. I only mentioned it to razi to show how much people aren't taking him seriously. And I fail to see how not relaying a joke reflects in any way of my knowledge (or lack thereof) of the PSP scene......

Originally Posted by NickyP

In his defense, he never once stated that he is testing the Dreamcast emulator in question (PSP one), only that he beta tests the PC version. That has nothing to do with his knowledge of the PSP; it's comparable to yelling at a an auto mechanic because he's unaware of how a water heater works. In fact, the man only came here to confirm that such a project exists.

Take it easy. Whether or not this nullDCPSP project fails, what does it matter to you anyways?

Indeed. I will make it as clear as I can. I currently test the PC build ONLY, as a PSP build doesn't even exist yet. You've pretty much said what I was thinking. Glad someone got it.

Originally Posted by Archaemic

All I'm saying is that TRYING is a waste of effort.

If that's true, then the only person's time he wastes is his own, wouldn't you agree?

[FreePlay]

Originally Posted by GeneralPlot

If that's true, then the only person's time he wastes is his own, wouldn't you agree?

No. That's completely wrong. He's also getting people's hopes up for something that will never happen. Look what has happened in the past to vaporware 'creators' in the PSP scene. All those nonexistent downgraders... followed by their 'makers' disappearing completely in shame as they're driven out of the community by pissed-off people who were waiting for them to deliver.

[GeneralPlot]

Originally Posted by FreePlay

No. That's completely wrong. He's also getting people's hopes up for something that will never happen. Look what has happened in the past to vaporware 'creators' in the PSP scene. All those nonexistent downgraders... followed by their 'makers' disappearing completely in shame as they're driven out of the community by pissed-off people who were waiting for them to deliver.

At the same time, there's a couple points to be made. Emulator developers work pretty much for free (aside from the random donation), and as such, really don't owe anyone anything. They do it as a hobby, and sometimes they don't see a project to it's end, but then you get other developers that pick up unfinished work and finish it. That's the way of the emulation scene. Always has been, always will be. The best piece of advice anyone can give is don't get your hopes up or expect anything.

That aside, the author has stated more than once that it is only an attempt, and thus, can't make any promises as to how it will turn out. He's basically pointing out that he can only do the best he's able, and quite honestly, nobody can ask for more than that from someone who gives away work they've done freely on their own time.

[NeilR]

Originally Posted by GeneralPlot

nobody can ask for more than that from someone who gives away work they've done freely on their own time.

Every regular member you see here at QJ on a daily basis pretty much understand and agree with what you're saying. Unfortunately, for every grateful person there's 10 more nubs who think they're entitled to something once they know about it. I think what a lot of people are getting at here is, keep it to yourself at least until there's a release coming up (one that you can absolutely meet).

[GeneralPlot]

Originally Posted by NeilR

Every regular member you see here at QJ on a daily basis pretty much understand and agree with what you're saying. Unfortunately, for every grateful person there's 10 more nubs who think they're entitled to something once they know about it. I think what a lot of people are getting at here is, keep it to yourself at least until there's a release coming up (one that you can absolutely meet).

Well, I certainly wasn't attempting to drive up the excitement. I only wanted to confirm that this project was in the works, for anyone that was interested and needed reassurance that it was even being contemplated.

[Matt93]

Even if it does happen, its not going to be playable at such a slow framerate.

I agree with NeilR, this is pretty much getting people's hopes up for nothing.

[GeneralPlot]

Well, I will point out that I didn't announce this here, only reconfirmed it.

[NickyP]

Originally Posted by FreePlay

All I'm saying is that NickyP's relentless optimism in the face of completely insurmountable odds is beginning to grate on me.

It's crazy isn't it, FreePlay? We're almost night and day... I'll give everyone hope, you'll shoot it down, I'll bring it back, you'll knock it down again... And thus, the circle of life continues.

It's almost poetic. Almost.

[Archaemic]

There's a difference between logical pessimism and ignorant optimism, however.

[NickyP]

Originally Posted by Archaemic

There's a difference between logical pessimism and ignorant optimism, however.

Oh ho ho, look who we have here, a regular wise-guy. What part of anything I've said was ignorant, really? I've even it made it clear myself that I don't think it will get full speed. I said in the first post for no one to get excited. In which post did I give any hint of "LOL SHWEET NAO I CAN PLY SONIC ADBENTER W00!"?

Actually read something and pay close attention before you attempt to insult someone in a sly way. You only make a douche of yourself.

[pspersanonymous]

Yes, everyone is entitled to work on whatever they wish and attempt to create anything they wish. They do it in their own time, on their own terms, and ask for nothing in return. However though, yes this is getting people's hopes up. If he wishes to tackle such a project go on and do it alone, do not make posts about it saying I'll do this and I'll do that. That serves no other purpose other than to get people's hopes up. And that's the reason why people are criticising. Nobody is saying he isnt allowed to try work on such a project (it is his prerogative after all), just that he shouldnt get people's hopes up (which is exactly what he is doing).

He can go at it alone quietly and if he fails then there is no loss to anyone, if he succeeds then he can choose to announce it & share it with the community. As it is right now, if he fails he just dashed the hopes of many of the psp scene.

Just go at it alone quietly in your own time and if you succeed feel free to choose whether or not you will keep it to yourself or share it with the scene. If you fail, oh well, give a shot on another project. Announcing it just hurts everybody.

(my own personal opinion is that this isnt going to go anywhere and will only disappoint people)

Originally Posted by NickyP

Oh ho ho, look who we have here, a regular wise-guy. What part of anything I've said was ignorant, really?

He didnt say anything you said was ignorant, just your optimism is ignorant.

Originally Posted by NickyP

I said in the first post for no one to get excited.

You post about it and then you say "no one get excited" . That's akin to saying "Oh look Im going to make a PS3 emulator for PSP, oh but dont get excited because we all know it's not going to be playable speed anyway".

I also have to say, every cpu architecture can be emulated, yes even the PS3 and XBOX360. Regardless of the cpu speed and the speed of the platform everything can be emulated. Each instruction of a PS3 game can be translated and have the equivalent instruction run on a PSP, regardless of how long it will take to execute each instruction, the full program can still be run. Heck even the human brain can emulate a PS3. You read one instruction at a time, whether its a load/store or add/subtract, do it in your head and record the results on a piece of paper and manually color each individual pixel on a screen by hand. The program is still being run emulated in the human brain and the results are still being processed (albeit ridiculously slow, but still is emulated). The only part that matters is how quickly each emulated instruction can be executed (on a human brain approx 10 sec. per instruction so the PS3 game would be running at approx 0.0000001 MHz emulated on the human brain - but still emulated ).

[FreePlay]

Originally Posted by NickyP

What part of anything I've said was ignorant, really?

Thinking... it... was... possible.

[Scoobiesnackarff]

Originally Posted by NickyP

Oh ho ho, look who we have here, a regular wise-guy. What part of anything I've said was ignorant, really? I've even it made it clear myself that I don't think it will get full speed. I said in the first post for no one to get excited. In which post did I give any hint of "LOL SHWEET NAO I CAN PLY SONIC ADBENTER W00!"?

Actually read something and pay close attention before you attempt to insult someone in a sly way. You only make a douche of yourself.

Just thinking it is even physically possible is akin to me saying its possible to stick 100 gallons of water in a container that only holds 50 gallons. It is simply not possible no matter how you cut it. Just thinking its possible and not likely is what is ignorant.

Alan

[PSPgamer512]

Originally Posted by FreePlay

Thinking... it... was... possible.

lqtms (laugh quietly to myself)

[Archaemic]

Question: if you're going to abbreviate it AND spell it out, why not just spell it out?

[NickyP]

Originally Posted by Scoobiesnackarff

Just thinking it is even physically possible is akin to me saying its possible to stick 100 gallons of water in a container that only holds 50 gallons. It is simply not possible no matter how you cut it. Just thinking its possible and not likely is what is ignorant.

Alan

Except it isn't akin to that whatsoever. Your example is: putting 100 gal into 50. However, the PSP-DC predicament is different, more like: running 200 mhz system on 333 mhz system (using basic specs, now). Basically, you're saying 50 / 100, when it's really 333 / 200. Ah, but I'm the ignorant one, right?

FreePlay- Hush yo mouf, boy. It IS possible. It just isn't too possible for playable speed. Don't play games with me. 2 fps = possible.

[Scoobiesnackarff]

Originally Posted by NickyP

Except it isn't akin to that whatsoever. Your example is: putting 100 gal into 50. However, the PSP-DC predicament is different, more like: running 200 mhz system on 333 mhz system (using basic specs, now). Basically, you're saying 50 / 100, when it's really 333 / 200. Ah, but I'm the ignorant one, right?

FreePlay- Hush yo mouf, boy. It IS possible. It just isn't too possible for playable speed. Don't play games with me. 2 fps = possible.

You simply don't understand it. You are asking a machine that can't even get Nintendo 64 to work to get the next generation console after that to work? We will never get a fully working 64 emulator and you believe its possible we can get the Dreamcast to work at all? A machine that came out 4 years after the 64? Wow...

Alan

[MiGs]

OK ok ok, enough bickering, Dreamcast emulation is possible on the psp, its also possible to get hit by lightning 5 times square on the jugular while standing on your head, while drinking lemonade 10 stories underground surrounded by a 5 foot thick rubber ball, then winning the lottery in 5 different countries at the same time.

I doubt it would even get 1fps, maybe like 1 frame every 5 seconds.