FYI: About "AbandonWare" and the so-called "24 Hour Rule"

[FreePlay]

Neither the concept of legally using Abandonware ROMs nor the "keep it for 24 hours" rule are actually legal. Please read here.

Not that we link to ROMs here, folks, but you need to realize that unless you actually make the ROM dump yourself, you're violating copyright law.

[matriculated]

Actually, making a dump of a rom is probably illegal too. Most software legal agreements specifically say that making duplicates for sale or for backups is against the agreement.

[FrozenIpaq]

Making a backup of your game is completely legal for archival purposes only under the DCMA.

[Joey]

Dumping your own rom is legal, but that begs the question... How many people actually have the equiptment to do so???

And yes, the "24 Hour Rule" is completely crap... It's a made up pseudo agreement between rom hosters, and rom downloaders...

In reality, it protects nobody from anything...

[FreePlay]

Dumping your own rom is legal, but that begs the question... How many people actually have the equiptment to do so???

And yes, the "24 Hour Rule" is completely crap... It's a made up pseudo agreement between rom hosters, and rom downloaders...

In reality, it protects nobody from anything...

I can make my own GB, GBC, and GBA backups

[Evab3vA]

Neither the concept of legally using Abandonware ROMs nor the "keep it for 24 hours" rule are actually legal. Please read here.

Not that we link to ROMs here, folks, but you need to realize that unless you actually make the ROM dump yourself, you're violating copyright law.

I guarantee you 99.9% of people on these forums who use ROMs for SNES/Genesis or whatever will not own the original copy of the game. Is it harming sales of the said dead systems? I doubt it, what with them being dead and all.

And anyway, what is this post trying to accomplish exactly?

[bepe86]

great post, this is one of the urban legends that should've died years ago, but unfortunately, is still very much alive.

[FreePlay]

I guarantee you 99.9% of people on these forums who use ROMs for SNES/Genesis or whatever will not own the original copy of the game. Is it harming sales of the said dead systems? I doubt it, what with them being dead and all.

And anyway, what is this post trying to accomplish exactly?

I've spent the last 3 days on Fanjita's IRC server where kids are complaining that they can't ask about where to find ROMs. I've tried explaining the legal issues surrounding ROMs and emulators, only to be shouted down by people who don't know what they're talking about. So, here you go.

[AJB2K3]

I guarantee you 99.9% of people on these forums who use ROMs for SNES/Genesis or whatever will not own the original copy of the game. Is it harming sales of the said dead systems? I doubt it, what with them being dead and all.

I confess to being one of those 99.9% because the roms i use i cant buy in the uk.
Gundamn wing endless duel was a jap only game.
If it could be brought for psp i would.
My current project is C=64 and i have a massive collection of legit copys of the games that need copying to protect them from damage.

I've spent the last 3 days on Fanjita's IRC server where kids are complaining that they can't ask about where to find ROMs. I've tried explaining the legal issues surrounding ROMs and emulators, only to be shouted down by people who don't know what they're talking about. So, here you go.

You cant live with em and you cant live without them.
As to the rules .
In the days of speccy and C=64 backups were legal but a few years ago it was banned.
Now according to the latest laws NOONE own the right to own a copy of the game, ONLY the right to play it (also valad with music cd's)
I know some one will flame me but that what the licence i read says.

[FrozenIpaq]

There was a recent court case ruling ROMS usage legal under certain circumstances, but I can not seem to find that article or case. If you have any questions about legality of ROMS, check the DCMA,

[Samstag]

There was a recent court case ruling ROMS usage legal under certain circumstances, but I can not seem to find that article or case. If you have any questions about legality of ROMS, check the DCMA,

I don't remember if it was a court ruling or an amendment to the DMCA, but it granted an exception to people who can show proof of ownership but can't obtain a legal second copy for a reasonable effort/amount.

It means that it's ok to break encryption to make a personal backup when it's abandonware.

Keep in mind that the DMCA is all about breaking encryption, not making backups. If you don't have to do anything special to make a backup, it doesn't fall under the DMCA, but could violate other laws or make you liable in civil copyright cases.

[FreePlay]

Now according to the latest laws NOONE own the right to own a copy of the game, ONLY the right to play it (also valad with music cd's)
I know some one will flame me but that what the licence i read says.

That's not at all true, in the US at least. The DMCA makes it illegal for us to circumvent a copyright protection method, but backing up an audio CD does not do this, so it's legal. Same goes for backing up any game that doesn't have some sort of technological copyright protection, like a digital lock or encoding. Backing up a DVD, on the other hand, is almost certainly violating the DMCA, because of the CSS encryption on nearly every commercial video DVD.

...It means that it's ok to break encryption to make a personal backup when it's abandonware...

Abandonware is a false concept. Copyrights don't expire just because something is old and hard to find. There are copyrights on products that haven't been sold for 30 years.

[Evab3vA]

I've spent the last 3 days on Fanjita's IRC server where kids are complaining that they can't ask about where to find ROMs. I've tried explaining the legal issues surrounding ROMs and emulators, only to be shouted down by people who don't know what they're talking about. So, here you go.

I'll agree with that. There's nothing more irritating than 'warez kiddies' who have know idea what they're talking about.

Good to see a thread with mature and rational comments.

[NickyP]

I guarantee you 99.9% of people on these forums who use ROMs for SNES/Genesis or whatever will not own the original copy of the game.

Very true, but I personally will tell you now that 45/50 or so roms I have are games I already own. Whatever I don`t own was jap only...FF2,3 and 5 for example.

[AJB2K3]

That's not at all true, in the US at least. The DMCA makes it illegal for us to circumvent a copyright protection method, but backing up an audio CD does not do this, so it's legal. Same goes for backing up any game that doesn't have some sort of technological copyright protection, like a digital lock or encoding. Backing up a DVD, on the other hand, is almost certainly violating the DMCA, because of the CSS encryption on nearly every commercial video DVD.


Abandonware is a false concept. Copyrights don't expire just because something is old and hard to find. There are copyrights on products that haven't been sold for 30 years.

So in theory usa is not alowd to use any OSS/free dvd software and not allowd to watch dvds on pc without buying legal sofware?
Dont you feal like youve been :humped: by M$?

[Samstag]

So in theory usa is not alowd to use any OSS/free dvd software and not allowd to watch dvds on pc without buying legal sofware?
Dont you feal like youve been :humped: by M$?

That's pretty much true in theory, though it's not enforced.

But I can't imagine what you think microsoft has to do with DVD licensing. They own everything *except* that.

[bepe86]

and with HDCP, they're enforcing us to buy vista, new graphics cards and special LCD monitors to use the full potential of HD-DVD and BluRay... sad world...

[iball®]

That pertains to the U.S.A. only.
Now tell me what the "facts" are in all the other countries on the planet.

[Coldbird]

Well, Im sure I will be hated once everyone read this Post... but I just have to say that...

Its true, most of the SNES Roms I got I dont own really...

Star Ocean, Super Mario RPG, Tales of Phantasia, ect.

But you Guys should understand the Peaple who are on the "other" Side... Im from Germany... all of the good Games didnt get released here afterall... and the Importing Costs are way above the Price the Game really is worth...

Also theres the Problem that, even if I would have bought all of them, I would still be illegal, because Its hard, no - Nearly Impossible, to get a SNES Flash Device to back them up yourself...

I - Thought, have a XG-Flash (GBA) and can therefore Backup my GB, GBC and GBA Games... (Long Live Mario & Luigi Superstarsaga)

So... Even If I had all of those Games, I would still be illegal, because I got the Roms over the Internet, which again is illegal because you can only back them up urself to stay on the legal side... but now comes the funny part... here in germany, such devices are FORBIDDEN, but yet, its allowed to make a backup using those devices...

So-- **** THE STUPID RULES, you are not allowed to own such a backup device, but you are allowed to use it? I mean... what are they thinking?

I had to pay much Money, just to get the XG-Flash from HongKong... Because it was impossible to get your Hand on one here without having to pay a ENORMOUS debt to the local police - and of course, you couldnt keep the device if they caught you...

So... WHY DO YOU TRY STAYING LEGAL THAT HARD? The Rules are somehow saying two total different thing...

Im sorry if it sounded childish, unfitting, or whatever... but this is why I simply download the Roms from the Inet, instead of backing them up myself... because it saves me the money i need to ILLEGALLY get a backupdevice, and of course the debt i have to pay if they capture me doing so...

Thanks, Ryu left the Building

[tor]

I own about 1 of my roms, I really couldn't give two ****s about pirating off dead systems, or alive ones for that matter

[3dkasper]

ok if roms are so illegal then why are the so readily available on websites. you probly have to look at the sales from the consoles. i mean if you have noticed that the roms or isos that are the hardest to obtain are the ones that the cosoles are still in demand.

this so called 24 hour rule is nothing more than a layer of protection for that website just in case there is some legal action or it would seem that way to me and how many of these website actually own the games as well. i highly doubt that a website offering somtimes over 5000+ roms actually has the original copy of the game so whats the difference if i have a few look at the websites.

im not saying it sould be legal but come on the cost it would take to persue legal action would out weigh the profits made from these consoles.

well thats mt 2 cents on that

[Art]

There is such a thing as abandonware where the Copyright owner has given up rights
to software because they decide it isn't potentialy profitable anymore.
All Milton Bradley Vectrex games are free for example.
There are also some free Amiga CD32 games that were once commercial releases.

Abandonware has a different definition in the document you provided though.
Art.