I might reconsider getting an xbox simply because of a rumored launch discount we get at work. If its true and it really is a big chunk, i just might buy two, sell one, make some cash.
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I might reconsider getting an xbox simply because of a rumored launch discount we get at work. If its true and it really is a big chunk, i just might buy two, sell one, make some cash.
If you dont mind my asking, where do you work?Zitat:
Zitat von kaioshade
Circuit City. Like i said, its just something being whispered around. I have only been working there for about a week now, so i have no idea how true these claims are.
well no they said 2, 1.8 for the gcard and 0.2 for cell. Its closer to 1 than 2 if they dont count pixel and vertex shaders. It has around 2% advantage over the 360 at full speed, what we know is ps3 wont be running at full speed anytime soon because the spes are very difficult to program for and it also has shader limitations. That being said graphically the consoles will look the same. I would say at this moment in time the 360 should be able to hold its frames per second at a higher rate than the ps3, because the ps3 has to use processing power for the AA and the spes arnt easy to optmize. I imagine games like kameo elements of power, 99 nights and anything else with 1000s of on screen enemies wont be possible on the ps3 until the developers get ther head round the spes. The ps3 will be a more complete media center though, It should be able to do many nifty things using the spes.Zitat:
Zitat von Microsoft
Hey just thought I'd point out this: www.oxm.co.uk So there we have it, September the 15th Official Xbox 360 Magazine is released
Sweet!! This is what I'm going to get :) Demos for 360 :dance:. Who cares about 60$ games, play the demos :P
I'd get it but i need to save my money for the xbox 360. Ironic isn't it?
Hmm yes as do I in fact. Wander if the disc will have a DVD with game vids etc too? Cause I doubt the first one will be with the 360 demo disc.. I remember my first XBox mag, OXM issue 0 (or issue one or something). It came with a video. A VHS video.
VHS, lolZitat:
Zitat von {Sephiroth}
EDIT: Plus aren't the demo's on the HDD and shouldn't you be able to download from Live.
Did you just say VHS?:ROFL:Zitat:
Zitat von {Sephiroth}
They say it's on a "disc" and that it will contain the following:
The best new Xbox 360 games for you to play.
Exclusive developer interviews.
Stunning new game footage.
User-created content like maps and skins.
Footage from your games, your clans, and your communities.
I think the first DVD is a video DVD with all the trailers released so far then the 2nd one in october has playable demos on them (although if the 360 release is November you'll have to keep hold of it until then to try them out).
Not everyone has Live (or can be bothered to setup the free version / have broadband), and a lot of people like to have demo discs, to keep and whatnot.Zitat:
Zitat von Microsoft
There is something wrong with people if they dont have broadband but can afford a x360;)Zitat:
Zitat von brain_stew
Um no, there are still alot of people that dont have access to broadband because of where they live, I only got it a few months back.
And some people just cant justify the purchase of XBL.. I can, and I will
the xbox motto is "Its good to play together" = XBLZitat:
Zitat von {Sephiroth}
The vast majority of Xbox owners don't have live, I think Live only has about 2 million subscribers but about ten times as many Xboxes have been sold. Some people simply don't have the knowledge to setup Live, others don't have credit cards. Demo discs are appealing to many people especially the average consumer who just wants to try out some new games. I think you (and indeed Microsoft themselves) overplay the importance of Live, the majority of average consumers couldn't care less about it. I still think Live is rubbish compared to playing with a couple of your mates around the same telly, as do most people.Zitat:
Zitat von Microsoft
i like playing with my friends on live, I can't drive 20 miles to each of their housesZitat:
Zitat von brain_stew
Firstly let me preface this by saying I have never had any allegiance to a console manufacturer, and that I will be buying all 3 of the next gen systems. I didn't make this thread to incite a tech-spec war so keep that crap out of here. These are my opinions on why the PS3 will continue Sony's domination of the video game industry and why Microsoft will again be a distant second, I'd thought I'd share. ;)
As of now Xbox360 is looking like a fine piece of machinery, it has some pretty nice titles slated for launch and beyond and some strong support from publishers. I am under the impression that for the first year that both PS3 and Xbox360 are competing, they will most likely run neck and neck or close to it. Both will have their assortment of weak titles, exlusive and multiplatform. As is typical of every slew of first generation of games, they won't push either system to the max, so they will be relatively even. It is after this point when the scale will gradually start tipping in Sony's favor.
Sony, unlike Microsoft, designed their system with the distant future in mind. The major evidence of this is the much larger Blu-Ray format that the PS3 sports, while Xbox360 only uses a standard DVD9 capable drive. In my opinion Microsoft shot themselves in the foot with this decision. Already, major publishers, especially ones that are designing RPGs, are saying their first generation games will require at the minimum 2 DVD9's, that being a generous estimate. As we recall while PS2 launched with a DVD drive, it's first generation of games barely used the format, most sticking with CDs, and now, years later, it's games are ever more expansive, some even using DVD9's themselves. Microsoft did not plan ahead with this decision at all. Down the road, if they wish to stay competetive that is, they will be forced to look to a format that can stand up to Blu-Ray, it will either come in the form of an add-on or a third SKU. Either one will definetly doom Microsoft's chances to dethrone Sony, because after that happens publishers will have no idea what to do, whether to limit their designs to fit on less DVD9's, use the new format, or press and package their games on 5-10 DVD9's. Neither of these choices will be feasible. Allow me to expound.
Creating a design ceiling to fit on less DVD9's will cause lots of problems. Microsoft stated that all Xbox360 games must support at least 720p, 16:9 Widescreen, and HD audio. Squeezing a considerably long and complex game, using all these features onto less then 3 DVD9's is an impossibility. The only choice would be to tone down the visuals and audio, and cut major content out of the game, which would make the game significantly weaker to it's competitors on PS3.
Using the new format will split the Xbox360 user base into 2 camps. The people with the add-on/3rd SKU, and the people who didn't shell out the extra money. This will also be a tremendous problem, because now developers will not be able to make their games accessible to the entire user-base. They will be able to stretch their legs, metaphorically speaking, but they will only be able to cater to the few who bought the extra hardware, and be forced to alienate the people who didn't. Add-ons never work.
The last option will be to press their games onto a ridiculous amount of DVD9's. We're talking huge amounts if Microsoft/Sony are promising CG like visuals, and HD sound. Compounded with the fact that some games will make extensive use of these features to compete with PS3's games. Sure Final Fantasy XV may be multiplatform, but why buy it in a 10 DVD9 box-set when it can fit on 1 Blu Ray?
These are just issues that I have with the drive. If they expect to ride out 5-6 years using a DVD9 they're loony. PS3 however was designed to last a decade. So while people (including me :p) will be scrambling to get an Xbox 720 in 2010-11, Sony can just drop the price of the PS3 and continue swimming in piles of cash, without having to release any new hardware. While Microsoft will continue to wonder why they can't turn a damn profit on their machines.
ROFL 10 DVD 9s lolZitat:
Zitat von ztype85
Blu-Ray, most games don't use full DVD9, most are about 5mb, and you can put them on a dvd5, if you get rid of the dash updates. the added space of blu-ray is only good for movie(s). i dont remeber 4/5 cds stopping people from buying the playstation. 2 dvd9's in more than enough room for games.
10 years come, If we're playing a ps3 in then sony is screwed, the xbox 3 will be out by then.
2 DVD9s enough room?Zitat:
Zitat von Microsoft
God of War, which is incredible both visually, and sound-wise fits only on a DVD9 unless you rip parts of it as short as the game is. These are PS2 quality effects, multiply that by the effects that both PS3/Xbox360 are capable of, that comes out to lots more DVDs. 2 DVD9s is not enough. The first wave of Xbox360 RPGs will use at least 2 DVD9s, these are launch titles. Look to the future.
you mean the Xbox 720. and actually most games take up 250Mb to 2 gbZitat:
Zitat von Microsoft
What do you consider the future? 2015? Most games will not need the extra space of bluray. Sure DVD9 has its limits and HD-DVD would have been a much better choice.I can see RPG's needing that much room, but most other games wont.Zitat:
Zitat von ztype85
HD gaming wont increase disc size, incresed resolution has nothing to do with the size of the data.
Can you please point to evidence of where the developers said more than one DVD9 will be needed?
Finally I believe over DVD9 will not be required until the generation after next.
Heres some examples of game sizes:
Doom 3 is just under 3GB. Fable is 2.3 gig (and if you dont include the videos, its 1.9gig). Jade Empire is 6gig (but 3 gig of that is videos, so really its 3 gig). Vice city is 1.2 gigs
The reason removing the size of the videos is important (which I have only done where labelled) is that if games will look so good anyway there will be no need for CG movies. I mean wow, Jade Empire has 3 gigs of videos
ztype vs. Oblivion X let the strongest fanboy/defender win!
Microsoft vs KON, who is smarter.Zitat:
Zitat von KINGOFNOOBS
1. Sony using blu-ray will increase the price of the console (and the price of manufacturing games) by quite a bit for at least a year to 2 years.
2. Sony has a problem if HD-DVD becomes the major format.
3. Some of the best selling Playstation games have used multiple discs (Final Fantasy series) and probably 4/5 DVDs will still cost less than 1 Blu-Ray disc (at least at launch).
4. If the PS3 is competing against the next xbox it won't do too well - CPUs and GPUs can go a very long way in 5 years.
me... Microsoft isnt a person........Zitat:
Zitat von Microsoft
Interview with From Software about [EM] eNCHANT ARm, said the game may have to use multiple discs although they haven't added any compression yet.Zitat:
Zitat von {Sephiroth}
I never MS is...Zitat:
Zitat von KINGOFNOOBS
Where on earth did you get that God of War is almost an entire DVD9? Its around 3 gig - 3.5 gig. How exactly did you work it out? If you just put it into your computer it will always say that it has used up the full capacity of the disc
First off get your facts right, one dodgy developer complained that they may need multiple discs for an RPG filled to the brim with pointless FMV. No big loss.
Hardly any current games use a DVD9 the handful that do (and a mean handful) are usually filled with excessive amounts of unnecessary FMV. No games have come close to filling a DVD9, yeah some may on 360 but two discs is bearable for a few games.
If Microsoft included a HD-DVD in their console then it would fail straight away. These drives haven't even been launched yet, do you realise how much it would cost to include them in the 360? Away from that, do you think factories could manage to create 1 million drives this year before its official launch? Microsoft would have to add upto $200 (at the least $100) to the price of console, it simply would not sell. They want to make the most of this year headstart, to get an established userbase before the inevitable Sony hype machine comes to town. They need the console to be successful in its first year to peel away some exclusives from Sony and a $500 possibly $600 system would not do this.
Talk of 5 or 6 DVD9s is just plain stupid, if a developer can't fit a game in 18GBs or at the very most 27GBs then they are doing something very wrong (probably including loads of pointless FMV).
Regardless, who really cares about an extra disc for a quality title? The two most successful and critically acclaimed games on the PS1 (MGS and FF7) came on 2 and 3 discs, respectively. I rest my case with that last point that makes all other argumnents null.
Of course HD gaming increases disc size, you are projecting more audio/video information than standard definition, therefore it requires huge amounts of space to store the extra information. Here's a blurb for you regarding the need for more DVDsZitat:
Zitat von {Sephiroth}
"It has been reported by a Japanese developer whose team are currently producing a massive RPG (Enchant Arm) for the Xbox 360 that using the current DVD format means mutiple disks will be needed for their project and perhaps similar RPG type games. Whilst the cost of producing these disks is relatively cheap and would mean little to no extra cost for consumers, it does point to the power of next generation games being a lot more complex than current generation games."
You're taking examples from current generation none of them supporting High Definition audio or video. You definetly did prove my point about resolutions increasing size, because Jade Empire is a complex RPG that runs at 480p and it's by far the largest of all the examples you pulled, and by the way 3 GB of video Jade Empire had, is rendered mostly with the in-game engine.
High def. All you are doing is increasing the resolution. I mean I dont have to increase the size of Tekken 3 for the playstation to play that at 1280x1024.
High res textures will increase game size but thats unrelated to high definition play on a HDTV
Oh and yeah I know Jade Empire is mostly in game rendered vids but still 3 gig of it is CG vids
I don't want Microsoft to include an HD-DVD in their console at launch, I want them to delay the machine until they can release a proper next-gen product that can compete with PS3, because as it stands now, it will fall apart in 1-2 years.Zitat:
Zitat von brain_stew
Enough! "Let my pigeons go!"
They both have pros/cons
PS3 has bluray (more compacity)
360 has HD (compacity as well)
What makes up high definition audio/video? The HDTV doesn't just magically craft more information and broadcast it to the viewer, it's created by the developers, and that takes up much more space.Zitat:
Zitat von {Sephiroth}
HD audio yes that would take up more space (didnt know there was HD audio as the definition part of hd refers to the image.. I thought...)
And increasing resolution is done by the hardware it does not take up more space. Having high res textures requires more space but the actual resoulution of the output is defined by the hardware not the data
The only thing the next gen disc formats are going to give is more capacity. The only thing that really needs more capacity is HD videos. Game code takes up an extremely small amount of spaces, same with geomertry. The textures that go on these take up quite a bit (say 5GB - that's pushing it even now) then sound.Zitat:
Zitat von ztype85
One thing you're going to lose with not having DVD is the drive speed, the 12x DVD drive in the 360 is twice as fast as a 1x Blu-Ray drive, which means fasters loading (as more data can be moved into the RAM faster), yes, Sony could add in a 2x drive as they'll be available but expect it to be far more than $500 if they do.